5 watt tube amp question.

[cybermgk]

Small room jam, no problem. Small bar, low ceilings, yer pushing it. Mic the sucker and run through PA to play Enormodome.

Enormadome

 

[cybermgk]

You're either going to have to mic it, or get a bigger amp IMO. For a heavy handed drummer playing rock, I've always needed about 30W minimum, but then again I do want to have cleans from time to time. Sometimes a 22W Deluxe Reverb sized amp works OK for me, but I generally need more headroom.

When cranked, you might find that it's loud enough but completely falls to mush and flubs out. YMMV and all of that, but I don't think that it's going to work for you.

And Bingo was his name o.

 

[cybermgk]

I voted no on survey, ASSUMING it meant GIG with a 5 watt, unmic'ed

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Thanks for the replies guys
The price point seemed very promising so I was just speculating.
That's a $250 handwired head.
I'll look into their 20 watt version, but it's more than twice the price

You won’t regret it. Metal NEEDS a tight low end that you won’t get from a 5 watt amp without a PA reinforcement. You actually don’t want the power section breaking up too much, which happens VERY early on the dial for most 5 watt amps. After all, that’s why we typically buy them.
For metal, I’d buy as much wattage as I could afford. Small room, 20w will do, with the right cab.
That being said, there’s lots of different kinds of metal. But a tight low end is pretty typical

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Fender Champ worked for me when the drummer used electronic drums. Not so much with real drums. Took the Princeton which is 12 watts to sit in with some guys last year and the drummer drowned me out using that.

You should load up a 4x10 extension cab for those occasions. Nice and light, nice and loud.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

But no master volume?

that may be a good option, I think in general I prefer push pull designs (meaning two power tubes) of a single ended design. Overall they tend to be less raspy and you will have a little more control of your sound via pedals ect...

A single ended el84 basically sounds like a hornet fart in my experience

I definitely prefer 6v6 for single ended.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

makes sense.
it is their flagship model.
Probably worth the price too.
Should be better than other amp heads at that price.
But I'll need more money for a cab
Its either gonna be this or a katana

My friend had a katana for a while and loved it. It’s light as a feather, loud as balls and super versatile. He used pedals for his dirt, so I didn’t hear the actual amp’s dirt, but as it’s made by a pedal company I’m sure the dirt is fine.

 

[ErictheRed]

You won’t regret it. Metal NEEDS a tight low end that you won’t get from a 5 watt amp without a PA reinforcement. You actually don’t want the power section breaking up too much, which happens VERY early on the dial for most 5 watt amps. After all, that’s why we typically buy them.
For metal, I’d buy as much wattage as I could afford. Small room, 20w will do, with the right cab.
That being said, there’s lots of different kinds of metal. But a tight low end is pretty typical

Yeah, metal is one genre where paradoxically you DON'T need to crank your tube amp to sound good. Normally all of the gain comes from the preamp, and the power section just amplifies the preamp section without adding distortion. Hence most "metal" amps are higher wattage with a ton of headroom in the power section, like the Mesa Mark series or Dual Rectifier series of amps, etc.

I know you know this M&M, I'm just adding to what you've written.

 

[KStopper65]

I voted no on survey, ASSUMING it meant GIG with a 5 watt, unmic'ed

I should probably change that. In my OP, I said there would be quality PA.
I just wanted to be able to monitor my guitar via the cab.

You won’t regret it. Metal NEEDS a tight low end that you won’t get from a 5 watt amp without a PA reinforcement. You actually don’t want the power section breaking up too much, which happens VERY early on the dial for most 5 watt amps. After all, that’s why we typically buy them.
For metal, I’d buy as much wattage as I could afford. Small room, 20w will do, with the right cab.
That being said, there’s lots of different kinds of metal. But a tight low end is pretty typical

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

If there’s a PA, you can use any tiny amp you want, as long as it’s mic’d.
If the 5w has a decent metal tone, go for it.
But you’re limiting yourself to playing with a PA. A loud cab could stretch 20w up to a medium sized stage.

 

[rfrizz]

Thanks for the replies guys
The price point seemed very promising so I was just speculating.
That's a $250 handwired head.
I'll look into their 20 watt version, but it's more than twice the price

Maybe consider this $250 one?

Monoprice 611815 15Watt, 1 x 12 Guitar Combo Tube Amplifier with Celestion Speaker & Spring Reverb

I'm not qualified to say anything about using it to gig, but the online reviews are good, and I think it sounds better than my Epi Valve jr 5W. Monoprice also makes heads.

 

[hbucker]

I agree with most others. If you run it through a PA there is no reason you couldn't gig with it. There are too many examples of players going direct and only using monitors to say otherwise, IMO. I like stage volume for vibe. But it isn't necessary for the audience.

Unmic'd, without just the right speaker/cab it might have a hard time keeping up with the average rock band/drummer. Rehearsals could be a drag unless you could run it through a PA, or set it 5 feet off the ground.

All that being said, from a pure volume standpoint, 5 watts is much louder than it's usually given credit for. It tends to lack any real low end, and scooping the mids really wouldn't be an unmic'd option.

 

[KStopper65]

Maybe consider this $250 one?

Monoprice 611815 15Watt, 1 x 12 Guitar Combo Tube Amplifier with Celestion Speaker & Spring Reverb

I'm not qualified to say anything about using it to gig, but the online reviews are good, and I think it sounds better than my Epi Valve jr 5W. Monoprice also makes heads.

By the time its shipped to India its more like $450.
I'd rather get a Katana instead of that

 

[KStopper65]

I agree with most others. If you run it through a PA there is no reason you couldn't gig with it. There are too many examples of players going direct and only using monitors to say otherwise, IMO. I like stage volume for vibe. But it isn't necessary for the audience.

Exactly what I intended.
Run the line out into the PA, and just use the head and cab to listen to me play.
We play high school auditoriums anyway.
i use a Boss ME-70 as of now, but it'd be nice to hear myself via a nice tube amp

 

[rogue3]

I'll look into their 20 watt version, but it's more than twice the price

It's always better to have more power than you need, when it comes to gigs,ime. if there are no gigs,or just a few subdued shows,i would stick to the cheaper option(5 watt).It will get you there.

But if you are aspiring to bigger shows,I'll bet that 20 watt with a proper cab would cover all bases.And it probably has the attenuating capability you mentionned so you can dial down at quieter gigs.

just to add some humor, walk softly and carry a big stick. good luck!

 

[PRSWILL]

Agree- 5 watts is PLENTY! I use. Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister 36 live and I NEVER have it on more than 5 watts through 2 1x 12 cabs. plenty of stage volume. Additionally, a low watt amp will saturate the tubes much better without blowing your head off! Sustain and tone are incredible.

 

[jamhandy]

I can't speak for the Calor amp as I've never seen them here in the US. I did have a Marshall Class 5 combo w/ 1x12" speaker. Cranked up it was very loud. I think if you need to be louder then grab a microphone and run it into the P.A.

Depends on the skill set of the drummer, too. Drummers who have what they think needs to be a huge set of drums (tons of cymbals and plays with baseball bat sized sticks)... They are typically too damn loud and need to chill. It has been my experience if the drummer plays too loud then the bass players cranks it up to match, then the guitar player(s) crank it up to hear themselves over the drummer and bass player. Pretty soon you got the club owner at the side of the stage yelling at you to turn it down. More often than not its the drummer's fault the band is too loud on stage. It takes skill to play with dynamics and not always one loud as hell volume at the drum kit. One quick check for me sometimes is to ask the drummer if he ever plays with brushes. The music we play might not even ever require brushes, but the guys who own them seem to be more in control of their emotions as far as beating the hell out of their drummers as if they were in a marching band.

A Plexiglas shield around the drummer helps contain some of the noise. And if he is THAT loud then he definitely DOSEN'T need any microphones on him. (Even though some drummers think they need to be miked...)

I think with any genre of music a low stage volume is healthy, and using the main front of house P.A. to blow the people off their chairs is the thing to do. You'll thank me later when you're in your 50s or 60s and still have most of your hearing....

 

[jamhandy]

ps. A drummer with a heavy hand and a ton of cymbals can drown out a Marshall stack... (IMHO)... find a drummer who plays both rock and jazz, and you're there... it takes skill and dexterity to play jazz with an upright bass, a small kit, and a guitar player with a clean amp and an archtop guitar... its been my experience a lot of rock drummers practice at home by using headphones and beat the living sh!t out of the drums when they come to rehearsal... Kind of like having a 100 watt full Marshall stack and lugging it around for every rehearsal and only turning it on TEN for any and all music...

Plus, many drummers only have one set of drums and leave them set up in the jam room for the band rehearsals. Instead of learning their part at home, they come to rehearsal and want to listen the the CD and practice... Practice is what we do at home to learn our part... Rehearsal is when we meet together and put what we learned at home together as a unit... So its not a "band practice" if you want to get anywhere, it is a "band rehearsal" where everyone has learned their part at home. Including the bass payer and the drummer who both typically leave their stuff at the jam room all week...

 

[jamhandy]

I don't know what your budget is, maybe you are leaning toward the 5 watt version because it is cheaper. I was looking at the Calor page and for 40,000 Rupees or $544.00 USD, the Force 20 Head might be a better choice.

Caloramplification.com

That way you would always have plenty of power and the ability to turn it down on smaller gigs.

My 2 cents...

 

[jamhandy]

I should probably change that. In my OP, I said there would be quality PA.
I just wanted to be able to monitor my guitar via the cab.

As far as your P.A.... running a mic in front of your amp then to the P.A.... then your P.A. should have some type of stage monitors and a way for your sound man to increase the volume of your guitar through the stage monitor in front of you... then you let the P.A. do the work... but I don't know what kind of mixer board your P.A. has... some mixer are very limited and can't channel individual instruments to individual monitors...

It also might be good to use either a long guitar cord or a wireless system so you can walk out in front of the main P.A. and hear just how loud you are in the mix. You might be surprised that it is loud as hell out front, but much quieter on the stage.