2014 R9 for sale w/o COA. Deal or no deal?

[Justin_Case]

Could possibly affect your pool of buyers, but will not affect value.

I totally beg to differ, like anything else, the larger the pool of buyers, the more demand, the higher prices go.

A missing COA is a big deal to many many buyers - including trade in values at any retailer. Logically it makes no sense in that it has no bearing on the instrument's playability - but many of the Historics are Case Queens purchased for looks and collectability.

Why the early Matchbox Cars or Hess Trucks worth so much more with the orginal boxes? Doesn't give the toys better playability either.

 

[Justin_Case]

I wonder if back in the day if the true bursts would have come with a COA, and now the COA is lost how that would effect the value?

The truth is, unless it is a special run guitar or limited the COA will mean nothing, even on the collectability side in years to come. They pumped so many of these things out the last few years its like not having the checklist from a USA line guitar. Worthless.

Check out the prices of Original Cases, Switch Tip Tags and alike - $5000 for a LP 50s case is not out of the norm.

 

[Justin_Case]

Did you buy that new, or used? There is a difference. I will agree it may narrow your pool of buyers SLIGHTLY. .....

Fact: There are more buyers out there besides me who couldn't care less about a C.O.A.. Therefore, it won't affect the value....if you don't cave into someone who thinks a booklet will add mojo to a guitar.

2 questions:

1 - How do you know the number is effected SLIGHTLY - the buyer's who won't buy it because of the missing COA don't even contact you.

2. How does missing something the guitar comes with add Mojo? If the case is missing, more Mojo?

 

[dmoss74]

i'm seriously having a hard time understanding how a piece of paper, placed in a leather folding binder would add, or subtract, upwards of $400.00, to an item that is ostensibly worth $4,000.00. an item that neither adds to, nor detracts from, the intrinsic value of said item.

if they only put a few out there, then maybe. but these aren't that rare (historics, in general). these aren't original '50s LPs. i think gibson (and some folks) may be overestimating these instruments' long-term value.

i guess i'm just dense.

 

[Justin_Case]

i'm seriously having a hard time understanding how a piece of paper, placed in a leather folding binder would add, or subtract, upwards of $400.00, to an item that is ostensibly worth $4,000.00. an item that neither adds to, nor detracts from, the intrinsic value of said item.

if they only put a few out there, then maybe. but these aren't that rare (historics, in general).

i guess i'm just dense.

OK Devil's Advocate here - Does it have any financial value?

If so, what amount would you put on it?

What if instead of it being an R9 - Say it was a $12,000 Slash AFD or a Jeff Beck R4, or a 60RI Joe Walsh.... What's the value then?

All else being equal, given the choice of 2 guitars where one has a COA and the other's is missing - again ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL - the one with the COA in the open market will command a higher price.

 

[dmoss74]

OK Devil's Advocate here - Does it have any financial value?

If so, what amount would you put on it?

What if instead of it being an R9 - Say it was a $12,000 Slash AFD or a Jeff Beck R4, or a 60RI Joe Walsh.... What's the value then?

All else being equal, given the choice of 2 guitars where one has a COA and the other's is missing - again ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL - the one with the COA in the open market will command a higher price.

i don't know those particular models, but i had said earlier, if an artist (limited run) model came with a coa, and was signed by the artist, or was specific to a small run batch of axes, i could absolutely see the value in that coa. but just some run of the mill coa, that every historic gets--to me--is not that much of a deal breaker (if not available). sure, as a buyer, i could ask for some form of discount, since it's not included in the sale, but i'd be doing that purely as a negotiation tactic. my heart wouldn't really be in it.

and i wouldn't place 5 to 10% of the total value of the guitar, on that missing piece of paper. not without blushing, or having to do a few hail mary's, after i got home.

i do not consider this item to be anywhere near 5 to 10% of the value of my guitar. i don't even think it's real leather!

 

[JeffWinston]

The fact that they have made so many reissues is kinda the point to me. There's no reason to buy one without the paper. There are plenty for sale with the COA. I wouldn't buy one without the COA unless it was discounted significantly.

 

[dmoss74]

The fact that they have made so many reissues is kinda the point to me. There's no reason to buy one without the paper. There are plenty for sale with the COA. I wouldn't buy one without the COA unless it was discounted significantly.

point a: i'll agree with. point b: is kind of a non sequitur.

if you were presented with two different r9 guitars (for sake of discussion), and one was head and shoulders above the other--to you--as far as looks, playablility, comfort, etc. both had no marks on them, and they came with everything they should, except the one that called upon you from the ether, didn't have the coa.

are you telling me that you'd abandon owning it, because the owner wouldn't drop his price, due to not having the coa?

 

[Justin_Case]

A point to ponder here - the members of MLP are not the so much the " Cork Sniffer " type. We are a more easy going laid back group.

Everyone knows I'm moving gear in and out all the time, and until you have some one holding your Darkback to just the right light angle, to show a 1/2 shirt button mark on a " used " guitar - will you understand just how anal some people are.

 

[JeffWinston]

point a: i'll agree with. point b: is kind of a non sequitur.

if you were presented with two different r9 guitars (for sake of discussion), and one was head and shoulders above the other--to you--as far as looks, playablility, comfort, etc. both had no marks on them, and they came with everything they should, except the one that called upon you from the ether, didn't have the coa.

are you telling me that you'd abandon owning it, because the owner wouldn't drop his price, due to not having the coa?

That's not a situation I'll be in. If I'm buying a historic, I'm buying online because there are none locally. If I see one for sale with no COA, unless it's deeply discounted, I'll keep looking because there are so many nice ones for sale with a COA.

But to answer your question, sure, if I was presented with 2 guitars, one with and one without, and the one without was head and shoulders better - of course I'd go with that one, paper or not.

 

[Justin_Case]

point a: i'll agree with. point b: is kind of a non sequitur.

if you were presented with two different r9 guitars (for sake of discussion), and one was head and shoulders above the other--to you--as far as looks, playablility, comfort, etc. both had no marks on them, and they came with everything they should, except the one that called upon you from the ether, didn't have the coa.

are you telling me that you'd abandon owning it, because the owner wouldn't drop his price, due to not having the coa?

Your point negates / offsets the COA's vaule with the value of a better guitar.

You are making a counter point - that is very valid. However you also at the same time validate my point about " all else being equal " a missing COA has an effect the value.

 

[dmoss74]

Your point negates / offsets the COA's vaule with the value of a better guitar.

You are making a counter point - that is very valid. However you also at the same time validate my point about " all else being equal " a missing COA has an effect the value.

that may be true, but the numbers being bandied about in this thread are head scratchers. 5 to 10% of the total value? sorry, i just ain't buying that. i could see--tops--maybe knocking off $50.00 for a missing coa, regardless of final selling price. but i'm afraid that's all--as a seller--i would do. again, as a buyer, i can ask for any number of discounts. as someone pointed out earlier (sorry, i forget to look at names), there will always be another buyer.

besides, going after missing case candy is bad negotiating, 101. there are smarter ways--if so inclined--to get a good deal, on ANYTHING. it's part poker, part informed buyer, and a lot of psychology. never buy--nor sell--from a position of weakness. going after a missing certificate is a bad move, especially if you come out "guns-a-blazing" on that one.

fun thread! this is the best one i've been part of, in my limited time here. lots of good, and passionate responses.

sure beats the snot out of the ultimate tone wood train wreck.

 

[Crotch]

Check out the prices of Original Cases, Switch Tip Tags and alike - $5000 for a LP 50s case is not out of the norm.

We're not talking about the case.......

 

[indravayu]

if that's the case (it being a 'dud'), then the better advice would be not to bid at all, since he can't play it beforehand, and is taking a very large risk.

Oh, brother! Why don't you try reading the whole thread, so maybe you can see that I already made that exact point in my original reply to the OP?

K, thanks!

 

[Crotch]

OK Devil's Advocate here - Does it have any financial value?

If so, what amount would you put on it?

What if instead of it being an R9 - Say it was a $12,000 Slash AFD or a Jeff Beck R4, or a 60RI Joe Walsh.... What's the value then?

All else being equal, given the choice of 2 guitars where one has a COA and the other's is missing - again ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL - the one with the COA in the open market will command a higher price.

Artists models have already been covered......

 

[Crotch]

I have 9 coa's. $500 bucks each or the lot for 4k

 

[Justin_Case]

We're not talking about the case.......

The point was about having original items that the 50s LPs shipped with - they do effect the value.

 

[Justin_Case]

I have 9 coa's. $500 bucks each or the lot for 4k

The question begs, how much will the sale of the LPs be affected if you were to lose the COAs....

 

[Crotch]

I assume the Krieger, Clapton and Grohl would be. (maybe the shanks) The others, not so much per my earlier comments.

 

[dmoss74]

But to answer your question, sure, if I was presented with 2 guitars, one with and one without, and the one without was head and shoulders better - of course I'd go with that one, paper or not.

spock--himself--would laud that logic.