2014 R9 for sale w/o COA. Deal or no deal?

[Sct13]

Thinking back, my Dad did "instill" that kind of thinking in me....he was the real collector, and without really collecting anything.....He just knew about old things...

Sounds like the OP likes this one....he better go get it.....before I do....

 

[jamman]

It's a nice looking guitar . If you like it , Ask for 1 pic of the control cavity ., That will tell you a lot about what the guitar is or isn't .

As to the Price ??? there is debate about how much value any COA has for a regular Gibson RI R9 . It's not from a "special run , of any kind guitar ". IMO , $200-$400 value for a COA for this type of guitar .

If you hold a COA in high regard then pass. Anyone with a small amount of knowledge of Gibson LP's doesn't need a COA to determine if it's real . ask the correct questions and get the pics needed and your good to decide .

GC more then likely was the Vendor .They lose more COA's and Matching Cases to guitars then all other Stores combined ....Easy ,imo . Chit happens .

It's about the guitar ,everything else is small stuff .Focus ,,, keep it .

Fact is ,The BEST LP I have ever purchased ,Had no COA and no papers at all . Not even the Original CS case . I didn't give Chit either. It Wasn't even in this Country . You do have some protection from Ebay and PP . Which is good to keep in mind .

He ain't selling it for $3,400 , that's the opening bid mark . I would say he has a reserve price on it and it will not be sold below that . My guess is $4,000 or more . His BIN price is about market correct for a new lightly used 2014 . You can find cheaper , and the top will not look as nice .... That's the trade off...The top .Better /more desired top = more $$$$ . Always .... That is not a new idea ,,, That's all on you as to what you like . $$$ isn't the only variable and certainly not the final deciding factor .

It's not Vintage and never will be Valued as an/or like Original Vintage Gibson LP , Don't even consider that in your quest for a ~ New Gibson .
With all the other 3K LP's R9's made this year, alone ... Consider how Value will be determined in 50 years ....

Part of the Value of the Original LP's is ,,,,there are very FEW of them to be had .... The other part is demand for that 1 guitar in question and how much SOME are willing to pay to own 1 , no matter what (people with a lot of extra cash and time ) . Not all Original 1959 LP's are 200K $ guitars .


Now, back to my extra large cup of Coffee

 

[Sct13]

I'll add my .02 to this in a little more detail.. I used to very much care about documentation and COA's, but the older I get, the more I realize it's about my experience with the item, my enjoyment with it, and in the end, will the COA or box really matter ON THAT PARTICULAR OBJECT to me. I think it matters more on Signature guitars (such as the Ace R9) and CC's than regular production historics.

I've had collectible things that I didn't use and when I sold them, didn't really get much more out of it than someone that did use it much more, and as such I felt that perhaps I had cheated myself and should have just enjoyed it.

So I try and find a happy medium of collectible/value vs pure enjoyment and not cheating myself from enjoying something I should be. Now I do have some things that I consider pure collectible and the enjoyment IS in the collectible factor of it, and the enjoyment comes from ownership, viewing/handling it, etc. A guitar is not one of those for me personally. I want to plug it in, play it, and enjoy the experience 100%. The difference here is that I just may only play my finest ones at home and am careful not to ding or put wear on the guitar. One of the reasons I love heavy aged LP's is because I don't have to worry about that.

Life is too short not to just purely enjoy things. In this case, I think the price is relative to the missing COA, and you can save yourself a decent amount of $ and just enjoy the guitar and not worry about it. The ONLY time the COA matters in reality is at sale time as far as I'm concerned.

So to answer your question, would that R9 bother me w/o the COA at that price? Nope, as long as it played well.

Glass Jars aside...

I do shoot my Military Rifles, and if I had a fighter plane, I would fly it....

So yea, playing them is a big part of it.

Some folks will museumize their collectables to the point of ????

Then they missed their calling as a curator....or a dealer....

 

[dmoss74]

I see your point...

But I guess Im the type to be anal over it...I kept all the manuals for the refrigerator and toaster oven and lawnmower air compressor washing machine, dryer, cars, phones, the six TV's we somehow accumulated....there is no place to store this stuff...

I even have all the stuff from my 93 Fender Strat....

I'm from a "Keep the box" generation I guess.....

i am kind of the same way, but there are degrees. if i buy something, i keep everything that came with it, in the event that if i ever do sell it, i have everything, box included.

but it's one thing if it's (for sake of discussion) a boutique pedal. the original packaging, and certs on a $200.00 (give or take) item hold more resale value, than a certificate on a guitar that is worth thousands of dollars.

it's very easy to certify that the guitar isn't a fake. if gibson won't reissue the full coa (booklet, and all), i'm sure they could send a letter verifying the guitar's authenticity.

someone mentioned earlier, that it's kind of silly to put these on so many different guitars. if it were some artist model, and the coa was signed by said artist, i could see wanting to make sure you have that. of if there were some special, small run. but having them for every custom shop guitar that goes out of the factory seems kind of pretentious.

 

[indravayu]

All of you (and some are friends) that claim the C.O.A. affects value so much......wanna bet?

It's not a claim - it's a fact. Any buyer who is aware of the fact that Gibson CS issues COAs will immediately use its absence to request hundreds of dollars off the price.

When I bought my COA-less 335 from Sam Ash this summer, I bitched about it being missing and they knocked $300 off the price without batting an eye.

 

[blackie2]

All I know is that you can't play a COA so why worry about it?

 

[indravayu]

All I know is that you can't play a COA so why worry about it?

Because many of us here are serial guitar flippers with acute GAS who care about re-sale value on guitars. No COA slows down re-sale and can cost you a few hundred dollars (granted, a good number people here are seemingly wealthy and this is not that big of a hit for them - but for others it is), unless you got a fantastic price on the guitar to begin with.

 

[Sct13]

Serial Guitar Flippers....

 

[ctkarslake]

I just wrote to the seller asking why it appears that the back of the headstock is painted BLACK. Anyone else notice this? Weird! Doesn't appear to be a stinger either.

 

[dmoss74]

I just wrote to the seller asking why it appears that the back of the headstock is painted BLACK. Anyone else notice this? Weird! Doesn't appear to be a stinger either.

that's a shadow, caused by the low angle of the sun, and the angle of the headstock.

 

[dmoss74]

Because many of us here are serial guitar flippers with acute GAS who care about re-sale value on guitars. No COA slows down re-sale and can cost you a few hundred dollars (granted, a good number people here are seemingly wealthy and this is not that big of a hit for them - but for others it is), unless you got a fantastic price on the guitar to begin with.

well, hopefully the potential buyer is just a serial guitar player, and won't let the loss of the coa keep him or her from getting a good deal.

 

[Vibrolux]

I think my question is answered.

To clarify my feelings since I am the OP. I would not care if there was a COA if it were a keeper. But yes I am buying off the internet. It's an eBay listing dang it. So of course I want to understand the issue if I don't feel it is THE one and I need to sell it. If an LP is missing the COA I know it gives me the leverage to ask for less most likely. Doesn't mean I will get it for less. Likewise it seems many buyers would pass or offer less.

I just wanted others opinions. I sort of agree with the thought that it would hamper the sale and potential sale price by 200-300. With that in mind I will proceed with make a bid/purchase.

thx Guys. Glad no one got hurt.

 

[chinbb]

You will lose a bit of value if you ever decide to sell it. Since this is a regular run of the mill R9, it won't be much. Maybe 5-10%.

I am speaking from experience as I have owned and sold a few artist model Fenders (all without the complete package). I took a hit of 15-30% on my resale prices.

 

[freebyrd 69]

It's not a claim - it's a fact. Any buyer who is aware of the fact that Gibson CS issues COAs will immediately use its absence to request hundreds of dollars off the price.

When I bought my COA-less 335 from Sam Ash this summer, I bitched about it being missing and they knocked $300 off the price without batting an eye.

Did you buy that new, or used? There is a difference. I will agree it may narrow your pool of buyers SLIGHTLY. I will also agree that some will use it as a way to request hundreds off of the price. That being said, on a privately owned used guitar, for every potential buyer like that, there are at least 5 more who don't care it's missing.

It's actually funny to me. You want hundreds off of my $4000 guitar because it's missing a piece of paper to authenticate it. Obviously, you aren't worried about it being fraudulent, because why would you pay $3500 for a fraud? You know it's real. Personally, I play mine, so, a piece of paper is not going to make a difference to me.

Fact: There are more buyers out there besides me who couldn't care less about a C.O.A.. Therefore, it won't affect the value....if you don't cave into someone who thinks a booklet will add mojo to a guitar.

 

[indravayu]

Did you buy that new, or used? There is a difference. I will agree it may narrow your pool of buyers SLIGHTLY. I will also agree that some will use it as a way to request hundreds off of the price. That being said, on a privately owned used guitar, for every potential buyer like that, there are at least 5 more who don't care it's missing.

It's actually funny to me. You want hundreds off of my $4000 guitar because it's missing a piece of paper to authenticate it. Obviously, you aren't worried about it being fraudulent, because why would you pay $3500 for a fraud? You know it's real. Personally, I play mine, so, a piece of paper is not going to make a difference to me.

Fact: There are more buyers out there besides me who couldn't care less about a C.O.A.. Therefore, it won't affect the value....if you don't cave into someone who thinks a booklet will add mojo to a guitar.

I bought the 335 used.

I personally don't give a toss about the COA, as I am a musician first and foremost, not a collector; but I buy and sell guitars very regularly (often times selling out of financial necessity - because I am a musician and not a collector), so I am concerned about anything that will affect the speed and price of future re-sale.

Most buyers of CS guitars are well informed about them and at this point, in 2015, know that they are supposed to come with COAs (and that they can get a discount if the COAs are missing).

 

[indravayu]

well, hopefully the potential buyer is just a serial guitar player, and won't let the loss of the coa keep him or her from getting a good deal.

If the guitar ends up being a dud and he overpays for it by not asking for a no-COA discount, he will likely take a hit on resale. Some of us are simply trying to advise him (since he asked for advice!) of the potential issues that might come up should he need to sell it.

 

[Deus Vult]

for me it would be no deal at 3400....no COA no deal....
call me an ogre...

I would probably do it at 3200,

Only for resale purposes, its got a killer top and its the right tea....

But the seller took those pics in low afternoon sun, which is fine....but me being stickler I would ask for additional pics....

Especially on an ebay deal, you want to make sure he has the guitar in his possetion he cant take pics if he doesn't have it....just a precaution.

You wouldn't buy an r9 you liked for $3400 ? Even with coveted 2014 specs? Over a piece of paper? You're lying or insane.

One should note the $3400 is the opening bid price...

 

[dmoss74]

If the guitar ends up being a dud and he overpays for it by not asking for a no-COA discount, he will likely take a hit on resale. Some of us are simply trying to advise him (since he asked for advice!) of the potential issues that might come up should he need to sell it.

if that's the case (it being a 'dud'), then the better advice would be not to bid at all, since he can't play it beforehand, and is taking a very large risk.

or, like i said earlier, i'd ask the seller if he's open to a three day return policy, with the buyer picking up the return shipping fees. i've offered that with a few sales i did online, but never had any problems. i will overstate any problems (if they exist), and rate things accordingly. i like having happy buyers.

if i had a dime for every item i've gone to look at (never guitars), that was labeled "mint", but couldn't pass for "fair", i'd be buying that lp in the ad.

 

[Sct13]

You wouldn't buy an r9 you liked for $3400 ? Even with coveted 2014 specs? Over a piece of paper? You're lying or insane.

One should note the $3400 is the opening bid price...

Insane....

I considered it, its even on my watch list....but I wont pull the trigger...mostly cuz the wife will kill me...

 

[JeffWinston]

That's an older case in the ebay listing. Kinda strange. And, I'd want the paper. But I'm OCD too.