Tipping

[LPJNoob]

those who are expecting it vs those who are grateful for it are two very different people. regardless, whose to say they need the money more than I do...

Who said anything about anyone "expecting it"? Please show us all where anyone in this thread said such? I didn't see that posted anywhere, show us?

 

[Brians Evil Twin]

Nothing to moo about...

You're going to udderly milk this thread for terrible puns aren't you?

I'd add a few of my own if I cud stomach them.

 

[Roberteaux]

Lotta Mr. Pinks out there...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ[/ame]

--R

 

[THDNUT]

How about buying a beer at a sporting event. They charge $8 for a 16 oz cup and they want a tip too!

 

[sk8rat]

Who said anything about anyone "expecting it"? Please show us all where anyone in this thread said such? I didn't see that posted anywhere, show us?

literally the first sentence of the o.p.

What is it with just about every (non-major-chain) fast food place expecting a tip these days?

 

[James R]

These people are getting taxed on tips they may or may not receive.
That sucks, and it's just plain wrong imo.
However, I get taxed on my income as well, the fact that I'm expected to pay their taxes as well is also wrong.
What I'm saying is that when I get my paycheck, there's already money removed from it for taxes. Then I go out to eat, and guess what? I have to pay more taxes on the meal I just bought. Now I'm expected to tip so that I can pay my servers taxes as well?
Screw that. It's a flawed system and it has been from the start. The only way to fix it is for everyone to stop tipping. It'll hurt the workers in the industry for a time, and I'm sorry for that, but eventually they will not be getting taxed for tips that nobody is giving them.
At that point we can go back to the way it should be, and give those we choose to a tip To Insure Prompt (and courteous) Service.

 

[X–Ray]

You're going to udderly milk this thread for terrible puns aren't you?

I'd add a few of my own if I cud stomach them.

I would never do anything so sacrilegious

 

[sk8rat]

I don't want to continue this argument as it is clearly going no where. everyone is just trying to get a head in life, far be it from me to try and hold them back. perhaps I went astray with my argument, as I said it "drives me up a wall."

my grievance is with the businesses and the fact that a tip is no longer a t.i.p....a tip is for a job well done, not just for showing up...a tip should be something that is given when you feel it is deserved, not every time you dine out.....not something that a blank space is left for at the bottom of the check, implying that you're an a**hole if you don't put anything down.

the fact that businesses are allowed to do all this with their tips is a scam and its unfortunate.

 

[LPJNoob]

if you get paid a ****ty wage tough luck, you should have payed better attention in school...

LOL! How do you explain this(These people took your advice & "paid attention better in school", and where did it get them?)?


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... l?f#page=1

Fight for $15 rallies part-time college professors

Wanda Evans-Brewer, who holds a doctorate in education, earned so little last year as an adjunct professor at Concordia University in River Forest — $27,000 — that she qualified for food stamps.

"In my wildest dreams, I would never think I would be a Ph.D. on welfare," said Evans-Brewer, 48, who previously taught for 17 years in public schools.

Evans-Brewer qualified for $390 a month in food stamps for her and her three children, a $40-a-month Medicaid family plan and subsidized day care for her 4-year-old daughter. The Center for Labor Research and Education at the University of California at Berkeley estimates that about 25 percent of part-time faculty rely on such public assistance programs.

She is among an estimated 8,000 part-time professors in the Chicago area the Fight for $15 campaign is rallying to its cause amid efforts to unionize them. The campaign is pushing for adjuncts like Evans-Brewer to be paid $15,000 a course, including benefits, a more than fivefold increase from the $2,700 a course she currently receives without benefits.

"Adjunct professors are becoming a bigger part of the movement against income inequality," said Tom Balanoff, president of the Service Employees International Union Illinois State Council. Since 2013, the SEIU has organized adjuncts at more than two dozen schools around the country.

Some full-time professors also are supporting the demonstrations.

On Wednesday 52-year-old Scott Grunow was among hundreds of people carrying signs, chanting slogans and banging on plastic drums as part of the Fight for 15 rally on the Chicago campus of the University of Illinois.

Most of the demonstrators were fast-food workers, but Grunow is a nontenured full-time professor at UIC and is also pushing for a pay increase. A member of a faculty union, Grunow declined to say how much he is paid. But he noted that the base pay for professors like him is $37,500 and that if the Fight for 15's push to pay $15,000 per class became a reality he would be able to quit a second 15-hour-a-week job as a social media manager for a website, continue his education and conduct research.

"I would be closer to the supposed American Dream," he said. Grunow, who has a master's degree, has taught at UIC for 10 years and previously taught at a community college. He said UIC professors like himself work on year-to-year contracts.

"We are supposed to be developing minds," he said. But he said professors carry such heavy teaching loads that students do not get the attention they deserve.

"We can't be here as much as we want to," he said.

Grunow said he usually teaches seven classes a year; he teaches English and religious studies.

Last year, Evans-Brewer taught 10 classes at Concordia, and said each required about 10 hours a week in preparation, teaching, talking with students and grading. She is paid at the end of the semester, which she said leaves her for long stretches without money coming in.

Evans-Brewer said she has applied for nonteaching jobs but has found potential employers that include coffee shops don't call her back. She suspects it's because of the degrees on her resume, which includes the Ph.D. she received in 2012. She said she has no plans to scrub them from her resume. "Why should I remove two-thirds of my hard work and effort for them to accept me?" Evans-Brewer said.

At the same time, she seems disheartened, resigned to her fate.

"There is no way you can go up, just down and out," Evans-Brewer said.

In addition to low pay, many adjuncts are treated as fill-ins. As such they often are assigned their courses at the last moment, often classes other professors have rejected because of the subject matter or size of the class or because of a heavy toll of grading.

Students also are affected. The Council for Higher Education Accreditation said in a report last year that the last-minute hiring of part-time faculty members impedes their preparation for teaching and hurts student learning.

Adjuncts aren't guaranteed they will be assigned classes, which has become more precarious as colleges cut back on the number of classes they allow individual adjuncts to teach while relying overall on adjuncts to pick up a bigger teaching load. It's becoming more common for adjuncts to seek teaching assignments at a number of schools to bolster their incomes.

A case in point is Matt Hoffmann, who said he expected to teach at least two classes this semester at Loyola University Chicago but at the last minute was informed he could teach only one class. He scrambled to find another class and landed one at the Illinois Institute of Technology. In the fall, he is scheduled to teach two classes at IIT, but he still doesn't know if Loyola will offer him a class.

Hoffmann calculates he works about 30 hours a week, which translates to a pay of about $21 per hour. For that pay he said he invested eight years completing a master's degree in environmental studies and a doctorate in sociology.

He has about $10,000 in credit card debt and receives an average of $200 to $300 a month from his parents to help him and his wife make ends meet and support their 16-month-old son.

"I'm 35 years old and still need some support from my parents," Hoffmann said. "I never considered myself a laborer or someone who would be part of a labor union because I always thought that those were for working-class people in industries that required manual labor. ... It took me a long time to realize that I was actually part of the working class."

Hoffmann, who wore a bright orange T-shirt with a "Faculty Forward" logo as he participated in a Fight for 15 rally Wednesday, said full-time workers should not be living in poverty. "I am not looking to be rich but just middle class," Hoffmann said.

Unions have long seen adjuncts as ripe for unionizing. Some unions began organizing part-time faculty in the Chicago area in the mid-1980s, winning representation at community colleges, Columbia College and Roosevelt University.

Beverly Stewart, an adjunct professor at Roosevelt, said such efforts helped boost the pay per course to about $5,000 from about $2,000 in 2001. Stewart said she hopes the SEIU-backed Fight for 15 campaign also will coax universities to offer more full-time positions.

Instead, universities increasingly are relying on part-time faculty to teach classes. The number of part-time faculty at more than 4,500 public and private schools nationwide rose to 42 percent in 2011, the most recent year available, from 25 percent in the mid-1970s, according to figures from the American Association of University Professors. Full-time professors who are not on a tenure track are also on the rise. In 2011, their numbers rose to 15.7 percent of total instruction staff, up from 10 percent in the mid-'70s.

During the same period, the number of tenured faculty fell to about 17 percent from 29 percent. Faculty on tenure track fell to 7 percent from about 16 percent.

Just ask Brendan McQuade how difficult it is to get on a tenure track. Last year, he said, he applied for upward of 50 such positions and didn't get any. In the end, McQuade said he accepted a one-year position paying him $51,000 at DePaul University with the hope his contract will be extended.

"It's hard to move up, hard to enter the highest level," McQuade said.

 

[LPJNoob]

These people are getting taxed on tips they may or may not receive.
That sucks, and it's just plain wrong imo.
However, I get taxed on my income as well, the fact that I'm expected to pay their taxes as well is also wrong.
What I'm saying is that when I get my paycheck, there's already money removed from it for taxes. Then I go out to eat, and guess what? I have to pay more taxes on the meal I just bought. Now I'm expected to tip so that I can pay my servers taxes as well?
Screw that. It's a flawed system and it has been from the start. The only way to fix it is for everyone to stop tipping. It'll hurt the workers in the industry for a time, and I'm sorry for that, but eventually they will not be getting taxed for tips that nobody is giving them.
At that point we can go back to the way it should be, and give those we choose to a tip To Insure Prompt (and courteous) Service.

They can't do that, why? it's a law. THE IRS put those laws in place, so why should they have to suffer or be punished for something someone else did, and they have ZERo control over?

 

[Digger]

Generally we don't tip here! Unless of course you have extremely good service.

Then again even the lowest paid here are on a minimum wage by law.

 

[LPJNoob]

I don't want to continue this argument as it is clearly going no where. everyone is just trying to get a head in life, far be it from me to try and hold them back. perhaps I went astray with my argument, as I said it "drives me up a wall."

I suspect this is because you were losing, and you realized it, and will continue losing your argument. Smart move here.

my grievance is with the businesses and the fact that a tip is no longer a t.i.p....a tip is for a job well done, not just for showing up..

Where did it say a tip was expected for someone just showing up?

the fact that businesses are allowed to do all this with their tips is a scam and its unfortunate.

Right! So your beef is more with the IRS, who institutes these laws, rather than the businesses who do this?Where does Suzy waitress come into play here as far as blame goes? how is she at fault for getting a tip for a job well done? If she does a horrible job, no question she doesn;t deserve a tip.

 

[LPJNoob]

Generally we don't tip here! Unless of course you have extremely good service.

Then again even the lowest paid here are on a minimum wage by law.

Right! So yours, mine, everyone is somehow supporting these awful mw making workers, especially when you don't tip, as MANY of these awful folks have to then go on welfare, to subsidize their incomes. Who pays those subsidies? WE Do.

 

[tragewombat]

These people are getting taxed on tips they may or may not receive.
That sucks, and it's just plain wrong imo.
However, I get taxed on my income as well, the fact that I'm expected to pay their taxes as well is also wrong.
What I'm saying is that when I get my paycheck, there's already money removed from it for taxes. Then I go out to eat, and guess what? I have to pay more taxes on the meal I just bought. Now I'm expected to tip so that I can pay my servers taxes as well?
Screw that. It's a flawed system and it has been from the start. The only way to fix it is for everyone to stop tipping. It'll hurt the workers in the industry for a time, and I'm sorry for that, but eventually they will not be getting taxed for tips that nobody is giving them.
At that point we can go back to the way it should be, and give those we choose to a tip To Insure Prompt (and courteous) Service.

That's pretty much what we have in Belgium (and probably most of Europe). Staff isn't supposed to rely on tips as a source of income and people only tip if they liked the service and even then never exuberantly so (more often than not it's a keep the change kind of thing, but rarely if ever 10+%

 

[foxtrot]

I don't like the system either and think it's both flawed and exploitative. However, it's the norm in our society and I don't think it's right to punish restaurant staff for this (or disparage or denigrate them personally because they aren't lucky enough--a major factor upon which much of a person's place is life is based on--to have better employment at a given time). If service sucks, then you can account for that with how much of a tip you leave and/or talk to the manager.

If you don't like the system, if tipping is to be banished, the only alternative is higher wages concomitant higher meal prices.


Money exists to exchange for goods and services. If you don't want to or agree with exchanging money for some types of services (such as people bringing food and drinks to you, refilling your drinks, clearing your table, etc), then you shouldn't go to those types places.

That said, I don't agree with when more fast-food type restaurants with relatively little or no service automatically ask for tips on the stupid new check-out tablets showing up on the counters at places.

 

[James R]

They can't do that, why? it's a law. THE IRS put those laws in place, so why should they have to suffer or be punished for something someone else did, and they have ZERo control over?

As I said, it sucks, and I'm sorry for that.
I wouldn't want to find myself in such a situation, so I can empathize with those who live it.
It doesn't change the fact that money isn't easy to come by for anyone, and we all want to squirrell a few pennies away for ourselves too.
Nobody feels responsible to give me money, so I don't feel responsible to give them my money either.

I wonder how many people with degrees are doing menial factory work or digging ditches for minimum wage? I wonder why society doesn't feel a need to supplement their income with tips? They Provide a service (just like every single employed person on the face of this Earth), right?
I'm not just being argumentative here, it's just that my perspective on the world comes from a slightly different angle than yours, and this is just how I see it.

 

[LPJNoob]

I don't like the system either and think it's both flawed and exploitative. However, it's the norm in our society and I don't think it's right to punish restaurant staff for this (or disparage or denigrate them personally because they aren't lucky enough--a major factor upon which much of a person's place is life is based on--to have better employment at a given time). If service sucks, then you can account for that with how much of a tip you leave and/or talk to the manager.

If you don't like the system, if tipping is to be banished, the only alternative is higher wages concomitant higher meal prices.


Money exists to exchange for goods and services. If you don't want to or agree with exchanging money for some types of services (such as people bringing food and drinks to you, refilling your drinks, clearing your table, etc), then you shouldn't go to those types places.

That said, I don't agree with when restaurants (mainly more fast food type places) with relatively little or no service ask or tips.

Spot on on everything. The last line especially, but most of the time, they don't get tips "just because".

 

[sk8rat]

I suspect this is because you were losing, and you realized it, and will continue losing your argument. Smart move here..

no, its because you clearly didn't even read the first sentence of the thread so you obviously don't understand the context in which im talking.

Where did it say a tip was expected for someone just showing up?

again, refer to the first post

Right! So your beef is more with the IRS, who institutes these laws, rather than the businesses who do this?Where does Suzy waitress come into play here as far as blame goes?

perhaps slightly but not all restaurants do their tips the same. I don't blame the waiters or waitresses, I just don't see what they are doing that is so rigorous that they should be compensated twice....now the triple a guy I understand. coming to you at a moments notice, no matter what time of day, rain or shine and getting you off the side of the road. that deserves a tip. walking ten feet from the kitchen to the table, I don't see it.

I understand its etiquette but again as I said before, the restaurants should be paying them more rather than them expecting us to pay their employees separately. waiters and waitresses at restaurants aren't independent contractors. so why is it they're getting treated like strippers. the money get throw at them, but the house takes a cut even though the house is supposed to be making its money solely off of the entrance fees. the house is supposed to pay them a separate hourly wage. so why are they "living off tips" and not what the house is paying them.

As a practical matter, because the restaurant owner provides training, tools (tables, plates, silverware, kitchen equipment), a location which must be used, pays by the hour, and considers the acts of waiting tables and cooking food to be a core part of their business, it is certain that the IRS would consider waitresses and cooks to be employees, not contractors.

see irs publication 15-a

LOL! How do you explain this(These people took your advice & "paid attention better in school", and where did it get them?)?


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... l?f#page=1

Fight for $15 rallies part-time college professors

Wanda Evans-Brewer, who holds a doctorate in education, earned so little last year as an adjunct professor at Concordia University in River Forest — $27,000 — that she qualified for food stamps.

"In my wildest dreams, I would never think I would be a Ph.D. on welfare," said Evans-Brewer, 48, who previously taught for 17 years in public schools.

$27,000 a year for part time at a small university is not that bad...that equals out to over 20/hr

 

[HeartString]

But you wouldn't say no right?

and she would be getting a tip


Edit: That was totally bad. That's on me. My bad!

 

[Pop1655]

First and foremost: The HUGE mistake being made here is lumping all servers into one category AND lumping all food establishments into one category.

I certainly would never pretend to defend all servers or all establishments. I am much more critical than most. I have been doing this since 1974.

I will defend to the death my servers and my practices.

If you want to talk about a group that doesn't deserve to make a living, let's start a separate thread about customers.

My theory is that a lot of the tipping in "fast service" (partial service) was brought on by credit card processing. We all use pretty much the same program. That program comes from the processor. The tip line is not something we add. It's in the program. Over time people started leaving the drive thru guy a buck and it just sort of caught on. Yes, many places saw that as an opportunity and seized it. Bad form. We don't grat, we don't pool, we don't grovel. We also didn't invent the system We just play by the rules that were in place long before we thought about doing it. My to go people do make a little in tips. They earn it. My regular servers are pros. It's what they do. It's a great gig if you have kids. You have time to get em off to school and you can pick em up. They're entrepreneurs. I provide them the space to practice their craft. The good ones do really well and earn every penny of it. The bad ones don't last long.

Anybody who wants to knock what these people do (or what I do!) needs to frickin' try it. Most professionals feel their skills are far superior to mine.
Most workers feel their skills are far superior to servers. I invite either group, professionals or workers, to come try and hang with us for a day. We'll send you home with your tail between your legs.

It's pretty darn simple.
If we take good care of you, feed you well, present you with a pleasant environment and provide you with a pleasing experience, take care of us.
If we don't, don't. We won't be around very long and you won't have to worry about us.

I have been blessed to have a great customer base and a great staff. Our regular customers are like family, our out of town visitors are here to have fun. We enjoy accommodating both.
If you do it right, it's a lot of fun and very rewarding.
If you don't, they start threads about you on guitar forums.