PSA: Allen & Heath Mixwizard's for $400 New in Dallas!

[Nicky]

I just picked up a new-in-box Allen & Heath Mixwizard WZ4 16.2 mixer for $399 + tax at the Guitar Center Outlet Store at Central Expressway & Royal Lane in Dallas. They have five left. I'm thinking about buying all five and flippin' 'em!

 

[Nicky]

I went back to the GC Outlet yesterday, and the store was cleaned out! Very little inventory left. They are closing it on Tuesday.

 

[Freddy G]

It's a nice little mixer. I recorded a live show with one of those...a country band in a tiny basement club.

Check out the soundcloud files below to hear the mixes:

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/must-be-love[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/grace-train[/SC]

This last tune "Love Canadian Style" was the encore for the night....it didn't make it on to the CD they released because they felt it was too irreverent. But it makes me laugh every time!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/love-canadian-style[/SC]

 

[Nicky]

It's a nice little mixer. I recorded a live show with one of those...a country band in a tiny basement club.

Check out the soundcloud files below to hear the mixes:

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/must-be-love[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/grace-train[/SC]

This last tune "Love Canadian Style" was the encore for the night....it didn't make it on to the CD they released because they felt it was too irreverent. But it makes me laugh every time!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/love-canadian-style[/SC]

Freddy, that's way cool!

Could you share your configuration of the equipment you used that night? Mics, outboard gear, settings, EQ, gain, etc. (if you can recall).

I will be using my Mixwizard for the exact same thing: recording our band at night, on stage at a good sized pub.

 

[Freddy G]

Freddy, that's way cool!

Could you share your configuration of the equipment you used that night? Mics, outboard gear, settings, EQ, gain, etc. (if you can recall).

I will be using my Mixwizard for the exact same thing: recording our band at night, on stage at a good sized pub.

Pretty much as straightforward as it gets.
SM58s for the vocals
421 on the kick
57s on the snare and toms
Neumann KM84 on drum overhead
Bass guitar direct
Violin Shertler pickup to DI
Pedal steel - SM57 mic on a Peavey amp
Electric guitar- SM57 on a small Fender combo (champ? Deluxe? can't remember)
Acoustic guitar had undersaddle transducer through DI box.

I hung my pair of DIY large diaphragm tube condensers in the house over the audience to get the room and audience.

Used all 16 inputs.

Each channel went direct out from the mixer to the audio interfaces (2 Layla 24s)

The room mics were very important to capture the live feel. For one tune they unplugged and walked out into the audience. I captured that with just the pair of my DIY room mics. You can easily hear the noise floor (beer fridges and such). Here's that track.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/alta-faye[/SC]

 

[Freddy G]

outboard gear, settings, EQ, gain, etc. (if you can recall).

Oh yeah, I had 4 LA2A compressors inserted on vocals.

The direct outputs on the mixer are post EQ...so on channels that I did only mild EQ that's what I used. But on channels where I had to use more not-so-subtle EQ (room and/or PA compensation) I used a half inserted cable into the insert patch on the back of the mixer. This allowed me to tap the signal right after the mic pre before any EQ filtering. By inserting the plug only halfway in you get the send, but if you go further then you break the signal path in the mixer.

 

[Nicky]

I have 16 line inputs on my Focusrite 18i20, so I can go crazy if I can borrow a few more mics.

Do your Laylas go into your computer via PCI card? I will have to connect the 18i20 via USB into my Dell laptop.

Did you use the Mizwizard sliders to balance the inputs while recording, or the software mixer? What software did you use? I'm using SONAR X3 Pro.

In the software, did you use all mono tracks, or did you use any stereo?

Were you also doubling a FOH engineer?

This is all fascinating information you are sharing.

PS: I have some HOSA insert adapters which retain the signal path when plugged all the way in.

 

[Freddy G]

I have 16 line inputs on my Focusrite 18i20, so I can go crazy if I can borrow a few more mics.

You've got a nice collection of mics going...all you'd need are a bunch of workhorse mics, 57 and 58s.....

Do your Laylas go into your computer via PCI card? I will have to connect the 18i20 via USB into my Dell laptop.

yeah Laylas were PCI but USB will be fine for 16 tracks.

Did you use the Mizwizard sliders to balance the inputs while recording, or the software mixer? What software did you use? I'm using SONAR X3 Pro.

No, I wanted as little "live mix" influencing the recording as much as possible. I simply recorded the mic pres or at least pre EQ channels. Why tie your hands for the recording?

In the software, did you use all mono tracks, or did you use any stereo?

All mono except for the stereo room pair. But it's all academic anyway....you can change everything to the config you want once you are in the DAW.

Were you also doubling a FOH engineer?

Yes, but I had an assistant.


I also did a live blues band recording in another very small club with the mixcraft. Let me see if I can find the mix...I'll post that too.

 

[Nicky]

So, for clarification, you set your vocal/instrument input gain at optimum sound levels on the Mixwizard while keeping your eye on the gain to prevent clipping, kept the sliders at zero, sent all 16 outputs to your computer via Laylas, then hit the record button. Then, you did the final mix back at Freddy G's Laboratory of Musical Arts & Sciences.

BTW, I found two used 57s and a used Beta58 today at a freakin' garage sale (sorry, no under-the-bed '59 Les Paul). I have 2 Audix i5 dynamics already. Can I use my Beyerdynamic M500 ribbon for vocals (or anything else)? I will DI the bass and keys.

 

[Freddy G]

So, for clarification, you set your vocal/instrument input gain at optimum sound levels on the Mixwizard while keeping your eye on the gain to prevent clipping, kept the sliders at zero, sent all 16 outputs to your computer via Laylas, then hit the record button. Then, you did the final mix back at Freddy G's Laboratory of Musical Arts & Sciences.

BTW, I found two used 57s and a used Beta58 today at a freakin' garage sale (sorry, no under-the-bed '59 Les Paul). I have 2 Audix i5 dynamics already. Can I use my Beyerdynamic M500 ribbon for vocals (or anything else)? I will DI the bass and keys.

For clarification, the important thing is to manage your gain structure. So I keep an eye on mic pre gain. I don't let it get anywhere near clipping....always leave some healthy headroom before clipping. Sliders at 0? no the console is set so that each direct out is pre-fade....meaning I can mix the levels for the live PA sound without affecting the levels going to the recording. Essentially, the console is doing double-duty. It 's primary use is for the live mix....I can set-it up any way I want with the built in effects etc. for the mix. But for the recording all I'm using it for is basically 16 mic pres. I then do all mixing and processing in the DAW later.

Sure you can use the M500 for vocals. Or for anything for that matter. Although I tend to prefer using the same mics if there are multiple vocals. ie....4 singers / 4 SM58s. But there are no rules. I like the M500 on electric guitar, or also fantastic on a horn.

If you have the channels available take a stereo signal from the keys (2 DIs). I love stereo! And also don't forget the stereo room mics are really important otherwise you get a sterile, sort of disconnected sound.

Here's another live recording using the A&H. This is the blues band I mentioned. I believe they are Canada's longest running blues band....all original members that formed in the late 50s! This was a fun recording gig for me because I had just built the singer/guitarist a custom semi-hollow guitar and this was the first gig he played it....and I recorded it!

The CD did quite well in Europe.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/too-drunk-to-drive[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/georgia[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/job-down-to-the-bakery[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/freddygabrsek/the-thrill-is-gone[/SC]

 

[Nicky]

If you have the channels available take a stereo signal from the keys (2 DIs). I love stereo! And also don't forget the stereo room mics are really important otherwise you get a sterile, sort of disconnected sound.

I have a JDI Duplex DI that I can use to create a stereo input with my keyboard. Thank you for the idea!

For the room, I presume I can run two condensers (my TLM-103s?) into adjacent strips on the Mixwizard, and pan them left and right, then, combine the two into a single stereo track in SONAR?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

 

[Freddy G]

For the room, I presume I can run two condensers (my TLM-103s?) into adjacent strips on the Mixwizard, and pan them left and right, then, combine the two into a single stereo track in SONAR?

No prob...you don't need to over think things. Just use a separate output for each channel and send them to separate mono channels to your DAW.

You can always create a stereo file from two mono tracks later in the DAW.


Obviously the room mics should not show up in the PA for your sound re-enforcement....so just set the mic pre gains but leave the faders down at infinity. You will still send the signal to the DAW because the console should be set up to send outputs pre-fade. Also panning on the A&H won't affect the signal to DAW either because the send is pre-pan as well.

If you use a plug inserted halfway into the insert point then all you get is the mic pre, pad and HPF. If you want to record the EQ from the strip as well you can go direct out. But I would only do that if using subtle EQ....if I EQed the kick channel with some more drastic settings as sometimes necessary for live sound re-enforcement I would rather send the unEQed signal to the DAW.

A general example of kick EQ:

Low- +12 db
Low mid- 300hz -8db
hi mid- 3k +6db

It's useful to look at the Block Diagram to see where the signal path goes.

 

[Nicky]

Good news is that I don't have to run the PA. We always hire a sound engineer for all of our gigs. I will be setting up a separate recording configuration. I may borrow the sound guy's drum kit mics directly out of his mixer, and run them into mine - he uses 5-6 mics on the drum kit into a subgroup on his mixer. So, would it be possible for me to run a pre-fade signal from his drum group to my mixer, which I would then send pre-fade to my audio interface?

I will run everything else pre-fade, dry, with no EQ. I'll mix that later on SONAR.

 

[Freddy G]

Wait a second!

I went back and read your "Ready To Go Location Recording" thread. You've got the Mixwizard4? That has USB output to DAW? Hell, that's the way to go! You won't even need your other interface then.

But now, another wrench in the works here is you say this Mixwizard is not the FOH mixer?

That makes things tougher....more convoluted!

the mic signal now has to come off stage, go to the FOH mixer and then from there you'd need to take a direct output (if it's available) from each channel of the FOH mixer to each channel input of the A&H to get it into the DAW.

Or

get a 16 channel split snake. That way no matter where you play, whatever kind of FOH console is at the venue is irrelevant. You will have complete independence and control. Set up the A&H beside you on stage tapping each channel of the split snake...just give the "transformer side" to the front of house and reserve the pristine side of the snake for your recording.

 

[Nicky]

The USB card is an option - it's not standard equipment. I'll order one and install it ASAP. I'll then set up my own mics during one of our rehearsals and figure it all out from there.

Our sound guy said he has all the direct outs I would need, so I can take advantage of his mics. He uses 57s for the amps and 58s for the vocals, DIs keys and bass, and uses a complete mic kit for the drums. So, can he set the direct outs as pre-fade, and still have fader/effects control of the house? If not, then I'll limit my recording activities to rehearsals and studio time. We rent a studio 2 or 3 times a year when we prepare for major events/gigs.

Last question: You mentioned stereo mics for the room. What kind do you use?

Thank you so much for helping me get started on a fun adventure!

 

[Freddy G]

The USB card is an option - it's not standard equipment. I'll order one and install it ASAP. I'll then set up my own mics during one of our rehearsals and figure it all out from there.

Our sound guy said he has all the direct outs I would need, so I can take advantage of his mics. He uses 57s for the amps and 58s for the vocals, DIs keys and bass, and uses a complete mic kit for the drums. So, can he set the direct outs as pre-fade, and still have fader/effects control of the house? If not, then I'll limit my recording activities to rehearsals and studio time. We rent a studio 2 or 3 times a year when we prepare for major events/gigs.

Last question: You mentioned stereo mics for the room. What kind do you use?

Thank you so much for helping me get started on a fun adventure!

Depending on the console, he should be able to send direct outs pre-fade.
If you can, take every channel out separately!
Avoid taking a subgroup drum mix for example because then your hands are tied if you want to change something within the drum mix (which you almost certainly will!)

Stereo room mics can be almost anything...as long as they are a matched pair or at least the same type of a pair of mics. I prefer condensers here....and of course these can be plugged in to the A&H. They don't need to go to the FOH mixer.

 

[bgillie]

I need to spend more time in the Recording forum. Hate that I missed that deal!

 

[Nicky]

Sorry, Bgillie. They had 6 of them, and they went fast.

 

[The Ballzz]

Yepper,
That A & H stuff is pretty powerful for the bucks. I have an older GL2 (10 XLR and 2 stereo channels) and it's been rock solid for 20 years, except for the insert jacks getting a little dirty and finicky when only used occasionally! If you ever get an intermittent channel, a good spray of DeOxit into the insert jack and working a plug in/out a few times is a pretty much guaranteed fix! Great EQ and other features. Sure blows away any of the Mackie junk in the price range. 3 band sweepable mid is simply so limiting.
My $.02,
Gene

 

[SilverBurps]

Love that console. They go for more than that used, and I've been trying to find an extra grand to get one for a long time. My favorite smaller mixer. Sounds killer and has all the I/O and semi-parametrics, etc. Great score!