Does the first note you play become the key your in? (Music theory)

[silversky]

If you started playing a F note on the B string (6th fret) and then play F major scale shape but avoided playing the Top E string 6th fret,which would be in the key of A#/Bb, but you started from the F note would you still be in the key of F major? Does any note you start on even if its on the lower strings become the key of the note you played first? Also how do you come up with chord progressions that use more then the 1,4,5 progression?

And I was watching this video on youtube about mixing minor and major pentatonic scales.. -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQRpwLa_SI&list=UUXpLzoqkE9JiOSZPR6kRvKg&index=1

Is it just when you mix major and minor scales does he mean just play the minor relative of the major? and the major relative to the minor? For example- F major pentatonic scale then mix it with the D minor pentatonic scale (F majors relative minor) , Is this what he means by mixing major and minor?

Thanks

 

[JonR]

If you started playing a F note on the B string (6th fret) and then play F major scale shape but avoided playing the Top E string 6th fret,which would be in the key of A#/Bb, but you started from the F note would you still be in the key of F major?

Bb is in the key of F too. Any F major scale pattern will contain a couple of Bb's.

Does any note you start on even if its on the lower strings become the key of the note you played first?

No.
Starting note and lowest note are not relevant. Either one may or may not be the keynote.
The keynote is the note that sounds like the keynote.

Commonly, songs will begin with the key chord (and end on it), but any melody or riff can begin on any note.

Also how do you come up with chord progressions that use more then the 1,4,5 progression?

Check out chords built on the ii, iii and vi steps too (all minors, normally).

Eg, key of G major contains G, C and D (I, IV, V), and also Am (ii), Em (vi) and Bm (iii).

And I was watching this video on youtube about mixing minor and major pentatonic scales.. -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQRpwLa_SI&list=UUXpLzoqkE9JiOSZPR6kRvKg&index=1

Is it just when you mix major and minor scales does he mean just play the minor relative of the major? and the major relative to the minor? For example- F major pentatonic scale then mix it with the D minor pentatonic scale (F majors relative minor) , Is this what he means by mixing major and minor?

Thanks

He's mixing parallel major and minor pent. Eg, F major and F minor pent, or D major and D minor. (I haven't checked exactly what key he is in.)

 

[arthurkandziora]

Not to sound too ignorant but I play what sounds good if I have to bend the last note to sound good when I end the run that's what I do. Make it fit. That's why I love the guitar.

 

[huw]

Jon has covered this already, but just to add a little:

...but avoided playing the Top E string 6th fret,which would be in the key of A#/Bb...

and...

...Does any note you start on even if its on the lower strings become the key of the note you played first?

This reads as if you have some confusion between notes & keys? Maybe?

The key note (which we call the "tonic") is not necessarily the first note played, or the last note. It can be either, but doesn't have to be.

Similarly, the key chord (which we call the "tonic chord") is not necessarily the first chord played, nor the last one. Again, it can be either, and often is, but doesn't have to be.

Finding the tonic (and the tonic chord) is not about where you start from, it's about which note sounds like "home". Where does the melody sound like it would most like to resolve to? Which chord sound like "we've arrived" when you get to it?

...Also how do you come up with chord progressions that use more then the 1,4,5 progression?

Like Jon said - start by adding the other chords built from the scale: You've got I. IV & V, add ii, iii, vi, and if you feel brave, vii(dim).

...For example- F major pentatonic scale then mix it with the D minor pentatonic scale...

No.

F major pent = F G A C D
D minor pent = D F G A C

That's the same notes - there's nothing to be gained from "combining" them.

He means combine F major pentatonic and F minor pentatonic (if F is the correct key):

F major pent = F G A C D
F minor pent = F Ab Bb C Eb

Combined = F G Ab A Bb C D Eb

Now instead of just five notes, you have eight. Ta- da! More notes = more possibilities = more melodies = more riffs = win, win, win!

NB - edited as per Jon's suggestion

 

[JonR]

Similarly, the key chord (which we call the "tonic chord") is not the first chord played, nor the last one. Again, it can be either, and often is, but doesn't have to be.

That first sentence could be misleading - the omission of the useful word "necessarily"... . Obviously the second sentence is the essential qualification, but if I can just expand on it (for the OP, of course )...

If a song doesn't end on the key chord, then it won't sound "finished".
That means it's very rare for a song not to end on the tonic chord. (Obviously sometimes songwriters like to leave the end of a song "hanging", for a special effect.)

It's also quite rare (at least in pop/rock) for a song not to start on the key chord - although starting on a non-tonic chord is more common than ending on one.

IOW, it's a pretty safe bet that if the first and last chord in a song is the same chord, that's the key chord. If you could put money on it, you'd win much more often than you lose...
But just, for the sake of argument, to point out one famous exception:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3gX47rHGg[/ame]
It both starts and ends (fades out) on a B7 chord, but the key is E major (tonic chord appears at 0:09). If the song hadn't faded, and they'd just stopped on a B7, you'd have been waiting for an E chord to put the "period" on the sentence. The fade lets them get away with it (while still keeping it nicely open-ended, returning to where they began).
(The riff is a nice example of major pent, btw.)

BTW, in that video silversky posted, he is jamming in key of A major. From 0:27, he's playing mostly A minor pent (obviously with a few bends); from 0:40 (for a few seconds) he's playing A major pent. I haven't checked beyond there, but I guess he mixes them around fairly freely.
(Personally I can't stand youtube "lessons" like this that start with some guy showing off his chops, and then yelling "hey guys how ya doin'?" To be fair he does go into some useful explanation beyond there... but you have to wait till after 5:00...)

 

[huw]

That first sentence could be misleading - the omission of the useful word "necessarily"... ...

Good catch - I've edited my post so it will look like I said that in the first place...

...It's also quite rare (at least in pop/rock) for a song not to start on the key chord - although starting on a non-tonic chord is more common than ending on one...

I know Jon is familiar with both the examples I'm just about to give, but for the benefit of the OP:

Midnight Hour - starts bVII, V, IV, bIII before finally getting to I
Help - starts ii, bVII, V, I (also ends ambiguously - is that last chord a I6 or a vi?

...IOW, it's a pretty safe bet that if the first and last chord in a song is the same chord, that's the key chord. If you could put money on it, you'd win much more often than you lose...

Hey, we're giving out gambling advice now!

 

[JonR]

I know Jon is familiar with both the examples I'm just about to give, but for the benefit of the OP:

Midnight Hour - starts bVII, V, IV, bIII before finally getting to I

Compare and contrast: Proud Mary .

Help - starts ii, bVII, V, I (also ends ambiguously - is that last chord a I6 or a vi?

I6 for me. As Mr Pollack says (and I don't argue):

The final chord of this song is another added sixth chord. In contrast to the splat-like attack on this chord at the end of "She Loves You", the boys use it in "Help!" with great subtlety; the plain A chord is given on the down beat, and the sixth is added as a melodic neighboring tone, off the beat, in falsetto voice on the phoneme "Ooh"

Alan W. Pollack's Notes on "Help!"

Another one of theirs that starts on ii (F#m in key of E): All My Loving.
(Which incidentally also contains the same ii-bVII-V sequence as Help, albeit from bar 6, not right at the beginning.)

(I hope we haven't scared the OP off with this little dialogue...)

 

[silversky]

Thanks, so for the the chord progressions when you say bVII you mean flat the 7th?? Would it be E from the F major scale (7th note) but then you flat it to D#/Eb (If so would it be a Eb major bar chord?) or would you play a flatted major 7th barre?

Another thing, I noticed how people use both the E and A strings for the root notes of what chord they play, like a barre chord people use the A string as there root note and play a C minor barre chord by barring the 3rd fret on the A string (C note) and using that as there root note. Would this apply to scales?? lets say I wanted to play a C major scale and on the A string the 3rd fret is C and on the string above it (E string) the 3rd fret is a G note and this is where you'd play a G scale but if I avoided the E string and started from the C note below would I be in the key of C? if so are the E and A strings the only strings the you can use as your root note for scales? or can you only have the root note on the E string for starting scales on?

Thanks

 

[JonR]

Thanks, so for the the chord progressions when you say bVII you mean flat the 7th?? Would it be E from the F major scale (7th note) but then you flat it to D#/Eb (If so would it be a Eb major bar chord?)

Yes.
In the usual shorthand, "b7" means a note, "bVII" means a chord (major triad usually).
In key of F major, therefore, "b7" means an Eb note, and "bVII" means an Eb major chord. (You can play it any way you like, but of course the common form on guitar is a barre of some kind.)

"b" doesn't always mean the note itself is flat of course; it's only "flat" relative to the usual degree in that key. So in key of E major, the 7th degree is D#, so a "b7" note would be D, and a bVII chord would be D major.

 

[LKB3rd]

You'll run into "non diatonic" chords pretty often, like a bVII chord. This means you will have chords and/or notes that don't fit into they key. The reason they work is they are put into a pattern or some sort of context. It will still sound like you are in a key but you are just pushing out on the edges of it a little bit, if that makes sense.
The best way to understand this, or at least the simplest, is to listen to it, and notice how it sounds. If it sounds right, it is right, even if it goes out of the key in the strict sense of it.