Investing in a LEGIT amp... Need adivce

[notoperational]

So a Les Paul Classic is "the bar?"

Man I know your not trying to talk down my guitar and all, but I know of this Classic that he is talking about... And honestly it is one of those exceptionally nice playing/sounding Gibsons out there that we speak of. Not that I am trying to make my Epiphone out likes its better, I would love to have that if I could afford it... And I get where your coming from with the $3,000 thing. But, my Epiphone flat-out rocks, ask anybody who has gotten to play it on here (which is stcin7 and b-squared, hell B has done 100% of the work on my guitar even!). It isn't necessary yet.

I am not just taking out a loan for 3K though. I am getting what I need for an amp, plus road cases. Thats it, haha! You play several Epiphones and talk about great they are all the time on here, while talking about how your R8 has a nitro finish and you don't take it out of the house and this and that (understandably!!!). Yeah, I realize you have Elitists... And that means nothing to me. They are nice guitars, but I would take my modified MIK LP over any Elistist or any other Epiphone on here period. My LP is my favorite guitar that I have ever owned, and I like it better than the majority of guitars I play in stores too. I wouldn't DREAM of replacing her from my #1 spot.

But you have to understand, my shit gets played! I sweat on my guitar, bleed on it, throw it around, knock it off stuff, scuff it, scratch it, hit my drummer's cymbals with it and I do things on stage that would land some of the older members here in the ER! The last thing I want to do is go buy a REALLY expensive re-issue Les Paul and gig with it. There is no doubt in my mind that it would get tore up from being out of the road.

It doesn't make sense to me to go buy another guitar right now. It really doesn't, not when I need an amp and I love my guitar that I have now. I would like to get a back-up guitar in the future, probably a nice Telecaster or G&L. But, I'll worry about that later.


It really is food for thought though. If I won $3,000 on a lottery ticket, you can bet your ass I would get another axe! haha, not because I need it, but because I could.

i play things such as August burns red and the acacia strain through my rockerverb WITH a telecaster. No pedals. just the gain on the amp. u HIGHLY underestimate the rockerverb. listen to between the buried and me. the use orange amps. the are brutal as fuck.

Dude, what I don't understand... Is I know we listen to some un-neccasarily heavy music, our ideas of high gain or probably 10,000,000x higher than your average MLPer. And they still don't believe us!

 

[diceman]

Man I know your not trying to talk down my guitar and all, but I know of this Classic that he is talking about... And honestly it is one of those exceptionally nice playing/sounding Gibsons out there that we speak of. Not that I am trying to make my Epiphone out likes its better, I would love to have that if I could afford it... And I get where your coming from with the $3,000 thing.

I am not just taking out a loan for 3K though. I am getting what I need for an amp, plus road cases. Thats it, haha! You play several Epiphones and talk about great they are all the time on here, while talking about how your R8 has a nitro finish and you don't take it out of the house and this and that (understandably!!!).

But you have to understand, my shit gets played! I sweat on my guitar, bleed on it, throw it around, knock it off stuff, scuff it, scratch it, hit my drummer's cymbals with it and I do things on stage would land some of the older members here in the ER (I'm surprised I don't have a hernia)! The last thing I want to do is go buy a REALLY expensive re-issue Les Paul and gig with it. There is no doubt in my mind that it would get tore up from being out of the road.

It doesn't make sense to me to go buy another guitar right now. It really doesn't, not when I need an amp and I love my guitar that I have now. I would like to get a back-up guitar in the future, probably a nice Telecaster or G&L. But, I'll worry about that later.


It really is food for thought though. If I won $3,000 on a lottery ticket, you can bet your ass I would get another axe!!! haha

I hear where you're coming from - and there was no intent to dog on your guitar one bit - as I'm sure you knew.

I do beat the shit out of my R8 - its scuffed and scratched and dinged and dented (it really isn't babied at all), but the one thing that I don't do is take it out and play it in the cold because I'd hate to check the finish by being a dumbass! If we had a decent practice space, this wouldn't be an issue! Plus, those Elitists give me all that I could ask for and more w/out the worry of checking - its nice to keep them in the mix.

Best of luck w/ your amp quest. I still think that you could get a great rig for under $1k - but if you want a big 'ol Orange - GO FOR IT! I've never been one to hold back from getting something I really want - and settling for something less will only equate to more money spent in the long run!

 

[stcin7]

Sure.

I'M not the one who said that there isn't a tonal difference between "cheap" and "expensive" guitars. That would be to say that wood quality and construction don't matter in the least. But, for all I know, Brett's Epi may sound better than a vintage Burst (and I've never implied that it sounds bad - not once - and I'm sure it rocks - Brett knows his stuff) - my point is simply that if you can't tell the difference between the two, then it would be a waste of money to "upgrade" if there were no improvement in tone or playability. I've never been one to dog on cheaper guitars, and I own several. I DO notice very distinct differences between my Epis, Elitists, and Gibsons regarding tone, playability, and overall quality. I'd have a hard time believing that I'd be the only one who could notice those rather distinct differences. Those weren't "fighting words," they were objective observations and relative truths...

i wasnt trying to dog your guitars and say that bretts epi was better. im not trying to get in an argument in a forum. that would be very childish.lol. all im saying is, brett deserves the rockerverb and his epi would compliment it very well. if you play it you would know exactly what i mean. his epi is a best to say the least.

 

[diceman]

i wasnt trying to dog your guitars and say that bretts epi was better. im not trying to get in an argument in a forum. that would be very childish.lol. all im saying is, brett deserves the rockerverb and his epi would compliment it very well. if you play it you would know exactly what i mean. his epi is a best to say the least.

I don't think I do the best job of presenting my thoughts w/out being antagonistic a lot of the time! Really, I'm not some snob bastard who thinks that expensive gear is all that is good enough - I'm a huge Epi advocate - and wouldn't have the nicer gear that I do have if I weren't taking out shitloads of student loans (just another drop in the bucket).

There is plenty of good advice in this thread - and many good points on several different lines of thought.

Most important is to just get whatever the hell it is that you want - I've spent so much money "getting towards" a goal, that I end up spending twice as much by the time I've gotten there. Then again, I got a big ass full stack sitting against the wall that I never use, yet my Peavey Classic 30 has become my gigging and practice amp. I'm surely not the best example to follow!



Have a good one - I need some sleep!

 

[notoperational]

if you want a big 'ol Orange - GO FOR IT! I've never been one to hold back from getting something I really want - and settling for something less will only equate to more money spent in the long run!

Exactly, see you use your Epis for the same thing that I do, work-horses. I would like to have a nice, back-up guitar though. It was awesome when I had the Tele and the LP.

 

[notoperational]

I don't think I do the best job of presenting my thoughts w/out being antagonistic a lot of the time! Really, I'm not some snob bastard who thinks that expensive gear is all that is good enough!

Dice your a good dude, I'm glad you put your $.02

 

[dwagar]

I agree, if you're happy with your Epi, just concentrate on the amp right now.

But, if you don't have a back up guitar for performing, may I suggest you keep that in the back of your mind. I bought a used Am Standard Strat a few years ago for $500. I do use it for one or two songs, but mostly it's sitting there just in case I break a string, or have some other problem with my LP (I had a bad solder joint on a cap come loose one night - my own fault - so I had to switch to the backup guitar).

The other thing I don't know if you've mentioned on here, for touring and recording, most or all of the time you'll probably be running thru mics, right? Other than the 'mines bigger than yours' factor, most guys are running smaller rigs that they choose for tone rather than for sheer dead ass power now, and let the kazillion watt PAs handle the volume chores.

 

[996ttcab]

i play things such as August burns red and the acacia strain through my rockerverb WITH a telecaster. No pedals. just the gain on the amp. u HIGHLY underestimate the rockerverb. listen to between the buried and me. the use orange amps. the are brutal as fuck.

You are confusing high gain with crunch. The Rockerverb is one the absolute best for British Crunch and, yes, it does get gnarly and brutal. I had one and liked it and I also played 2 Orange heads during the 80s for stage rigs.

I found myself playing a lot of Zep solos when I had the Rockerverb because it nailed them so perfectly, but other stuff that I played was not as pleasing to me. The amp had a tendency to get muddy or frizzy even when I used a TC Electronics G Force on it to dial in the gain and sounds I needed or wanted. Don't get me wrong, a Rockerverb will get that Thrash, chunky midrange roar that rocks and if that is all you play, the Rockerverb is perfect (ala AC/DC).

Will it do metal, yeah, but not as well as Diezel, Engl, H&K, Splawn, Rivera, 5150, and etc.

My Triamp in channel 2 is voiced just like a Rockerverb to a T and that is my low gain channel. Channel 3 goes into the realm of Engl, Rivera, VH4, and etc.

I also find that the Orange PPC 212 cannot handle really high gain. The cabinet can get a bit muddy with ultra high gain heads, at least it did with the VH4 and a little with the Triamp.

I am not being critical here. I just believe that the Rockerverb is one of the best for what it does, British voiced crunch that yes, does get gnarly and nasty. If, however, you want a true high gainer, look elsewhere. That is why we have choices.

 

[b-squared]

The Triamp at GC that Brett is referring to is a trade-in that they are selling.

I messed with it for about 30-40 minutes, and told them the #1 channel was messed up--looks like they decided to do nothing about it.

The High-Gain channels really sounded great--all the gain you'd ever need and then some.

It's no wonder Alex Lifeson uses them...I was able to get some great Rush tones with it in a few minutes with my R7.

BB

 

[ellem52]

I get where you need RELIABLE equipment to play live. When I was going to be rock star way back in the 90s I lugged around a Randall 2X12 with a ToneWorks II or something similar. We were playing live in clubs like CBGBs there was no point in bringing the expensive stuff out. No one could hear the difference anyway. To some extent it worked. We got picked up and went on tour with an important band of the time. Even got signed.

So I can't help but be slightly confused by premises:

A) You have a limited window to be a rock star
B) You need an expensive rig to be a rock star
C) You're buying the last amp you'll ever buy at 21

Maybe it's because I was 21 twenty years ago and decided I didn't want to be rock star.

You sound like you have the smarts to handle money fairly well (although I'd move out before I considered dropping 3K on gear - in fact, I did!) and I wish you well. Hell, I hope you accept an award next year and denounce me publicly as the guy who tried to stop you from writing the greatest song since Freebird :: "There was this old dude who told me to buy a Mesa and I was like no way man! I need to rock and that's how we ended up writing 'Old People Don't Rock'! So thank you to the Academy for this vindication of my decision to buy an Orange amp and road cases!!! Screw you old guy! Lookit me now!" I just can't help but think this is a lot of money that could be better spent on any number of things - AND you could be getting a decent road amp in the process.

 

[996ttcab]

The Triamp at GC that Brett is referring to is a trade-in that they are selling.

I messed with it for about 30-40 minutes, and told them the #1 channel was messed up--looks like they decided to do nothing about it.

The High-Gain channels really sounded great--all the gain you'd ever need and then some.

It's no wonder Alex Lifeson uses them...I was able to get some great Rush tones with it in a few minutes with my R7.

BB

Yeah, 3a and 3b has more gain than necessary, but both channels have a distinct voicing. You have to really crank 2a and 2b to get that British crunch going.

Channel 1 was messed up. That sucks.

 

[notoperational]

I get where you need RELIABLE equipment to play live. When I was going to be rock star way back in the 90s I lugged around a Randall 2X12 with a ToneWorks II or something similar. We were playing live in clubs like CBGBs there was no point in bringing the expensive stuff out. No one could hear the difference anyway. To some extent it worked. We got picked up and went on tour with an important band of the time. Even got signed.

So I can't help but be slightly confused by premises:

A) You have a limited window to be a rock star
B) You need an expensive rig to be a rock star
C) You're buying the last amp you'll ever buy at 21

Maybe it's because I was 21 twenty years ago and decided I didn't want to be rock star.

You sound like you have the smarts to handle money fairly well (although I'd move out before I considered dropping 3K on gear - in fact, I did!) and I wish you well. Hell, I hope you accept an award next year and denounce me publicly as the guy who tried to stop you from writing the greatest song since Freebird :: "There was this old dude who told me to buy a Mesa and I was like no way man! I need to rock and that's how we ended up writing 'Old People Don't Rock'! So thank you to the Academy for this vindication of my decision to buy an Orange amp and road cases!!! Screw you old guy! Lookit me now!" I just can't help but think this is a lot of money that could be better spent on any number of things - AND you could be getting a decent road amp in the process.

hahaha thats awesome. Will it happen? Nah, and if I ever won any award I would for sure thank all my MLP bros.

 

[tonebone]

KT88's,....I think those can cut through over the drums.....I might be wrong...

VHT 60 WATT DELIVERANCE TUBE HEAD - eBay (item 120332728683 end time Nov-14-08 19:09:47 PST)


hmmmm, think I read some other MLPer loved this brand...

 

[notoperational]

KT88's,....I think those can cut through over the drums.....I might be wrong...

VHT 60 WATT DELIVERANCE TUBE HEAD - eBay (item 120332728683 end time Nov-14-08 19:09:47 PST)


hmmmm, think I read some other MLPer loved this brand...

It might have been me. Matter of fact, I know it was me. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the Deliverance 60, it is one of my favorite amps. They are a little cheaper than the Oranges too.

I wanna give one of them a go around again before I start dropping coins.

Also what is up with the KT88 tubes? I don't know a lot of amps that use them.

 

[tonebone]

It might have been me. Matter of fact, I know it was me. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the Deliverance 60, it is one of my favorite amps. They are a little cheaper than the Oranges too.

I wanna give one of them a go around again before I start dropping coins.

Also what is up with the KT88 tubes? I don't know a lot of amps that use them.

Check the price of 'em. Got a hunch they's 'spensive my man. LOL

The price of a HUGE bar tab. And then some...

 

[tonebone]

There was a Marshall Major on craigslist here a while ago. It had KT88's. 4 tubes. Don't think he was able to sell it. Just too darn powerful.

I'd like to hear an amp that use's 'em sometime.

Maybe I did back in the early 70's and din't know it...Voice of God is how one reviewer talks about them.

 

[tonebone]

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/reissue-vs-vintage/jul-08/86609

"Genalex Gold Lion KT88
Introduced in 1957, the KT88 was Europe’s answer to the mighty Tung-Sol 6550. Conservatively rated at 40 watts with 600 volts on the plates, the KT88 was initially used by such hi-fi makers as Dynaco, Leak, McIntosh, and Harmon-Kardon. However, it was in the 200-watt Marshall Major of 1968—which used four KT88s running at 650 volts—that this burly beam pentode became legendary among guitar players. The original KT88 is a masterpiece of audio technology, and a matched NOS pair can now run as much as $1,000. Much less expensive reissue KT88s have been produced in Chinese, Russian, and Slovakian factories for years, but with New Sensor’s release of the Genalex Gold Lion KT88 ($140 street, matched pair) we now have a version that purportedly duplicates not only the awesome look of the original, but also its internal details, including the gold-plated grid wire, carbonized screen grids, and tri-alloy-clad plate structure.

Given the KT88’s reputation for power and headroom, you might think it would sound somewhat stiff when overdriven. Not so. Our NOS vintage example from the late ’50s sounded great when driven into distortion, yielding an absolutely badass tone that displayed extended bass, awesome midrange complexity, and beautiful high-end presentation. This aggressive-sounding tube also cleaned up very nicely at lower guitar levels, producing a crisp, shimmering tone with gorgeous note detail and exceptional string-to-string clarity. The reissue Gold Lion copped most of the essential elements of the original’s bold sound, but differed by being brasher on the top and displaying a harder-edged response overall. It still packs a very muscular distortion sound and has yards of headroom, but it was not quite as refined as the original Gold Lion. The new tube may soften up with some use, however, and we’ll be certainly eager to see how well it holds up when installed in some of the high-voltage amps that use it.
"

I guess there's an Orange that uses 'em too...Thunderverb? not sure...

That Rockerverb may be "you" after all. Can't wait to see what you get! But don't let us rush ya...

 

[notoperational]

...Voice of God is how one reviewer talks about them.

I will say this... The VHT has its own personality and tone. It's a beast, it's loud and it sounds really awesome. If that is how a Marshall is supposed to sound, then I guess I have been playing the wrong ones!!! haha

 

[notoperational]

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/reissue-vs-vintage/jul-08/86609

"Genalex Gold Lion KT88
Introduced in 1957, the KT88 was Europe’s answer to the mighty Tung-Sol 6550. Conservatively rated at 40 watts with 600 volts on the plates, the KT88 was initially used by such hi-fi makers as Dynaco, Leak, McIntosh, and Harmon-Kardon. However, it was in the 200-watt Marshall Major of 1968—which used four KT88s running at 650 volts—that this burly beam pentode became legendary among guitar players. The original KT88 is a masterpiece of audio technology, and a matched NOS pair can now run as much as $1,000. Much less expensive reissue KT88s have been produced in Chinese, Russian, and Slovakian factories for years, but with New Sensor’s release of the Genalex Gold Lion KT88 ($140 street, matched pair) we now have a version that purportedly duplicates not only the awesome look of the original, but also its internal details, including the gold-plated grid wire, carbonized screen grids, and tri-alloy-clad plate structure.

Given the KT88’s reputation for power and headroom, you might think it would sound somewhat stiff when overdriven. Not so. Our NOS vintage example from the late ’50s sounded great when driven into distortion, yielding an absolutely badass tone that displayed extended bass, awesome midrange complexity, and beautiful high-end presentation. This aggressive-sounding tube also cleaned up very nicely at lower guitar levels, producing a crisp, shimmering tone with gorgeous note detail and exceptional string-to-string clarity. The reissue Gold Lion copped most of the essential elements of the original’s bold sound, but differed by being brasher on the top and displaying a harder-edged response overall. It still packs a very muscular distortion sound and has yards of headroom, but it was not quite as refined as the original Gold Lion. The new tube may soften up with some use, however, and we’ll be certainly eager to see how well it holds up when installed in some of the high-voltage amps that use it.
"

I guess there's an Orange that uses 'em too...Thunderverb? not sure...

That Rockerverb may be "you" after all. Can't wait to see what you get! But don't let us rush ya...

Awesome post.

The Thunderverbs are monsters. I haven't got to play one yet, but I know they make a 200w version that will probably blow out windows and abort unborn children.

I forgot about the VHT. I NEED to check that out before I drop money. What sucks is I don't know where I can find one anymore They had one at one of the Guitar Centers around here, but its been long-gone. They have a Deliverance 120... But it's pretty safe to say that that is over-kill for what I need right now! Especially if that has the God-like KT88's in them.

 

[notoperational]

I am fairly positive though that if I get any sort of head, I will go with an Orange cab. I really can't think of anything better. With the Deliverance 60 OR the Rockerverb 50, the Orange 2x12 is rated @ 60 watts. So either of those heads will be able to really work that cab.

I would like to get a Landry 2x12, but idk if I can just call them up and be like... Aye, lemme buy one of those. But, I could be wrong. I guess we'll see when the time comes.