famous R0?...

[Stowburst]

So, as long as he knows good tone and makes great pickups, it's ok to sell fraudulent guitars??? I wonder if your outlook would be the same if you were the buyer of the guitar??

No way man, selling fraudulent guitars is out of order.

I didn't mean to say "What ever happens.. Rod knows good tone and makes GREAT pups"

I meant to say, I like the tone of his pups..I'm happy with them

But Mark, I agree with you 100% I think what has happened is shocking! If I was the buyer I would be VERY upset too.

 

[markguitar]

No way man, selling fraudulent guitars is out of order.

I didn't mean to say "What ever happens.. Rod knows good tone and makes GREAT pups"

I meant to say, I like the tone of his pups..I'm happy with them

But Mark, I agree with you 100% I think what has happened is shocking! If I was the buyer I would be VERY upset too.

Cool Stow, I guess it was just the way you worded it.

 

[LPCollector]

So you see, if it IS what I say it is, he wants to keep it or sell it. (because if it IS what we think it is, it is worth TWICE what he paid for it)

I fall into the "knows enough to be dangerous" crowd......BUT.......

What the hell does he think it is?

A '93 would have to be altered....a double serial? Maybe, but the '03 Braz run had no Plain top R0's (except the Stingers).
The color...due to the pics is hard to tell.......Triburst or Vintage Burst.......NEITHER were offered on the Braz run in '03.

AND HE OWNED BOTH GUITARS!.......being as smart as he is....he should have proved provenance the minute he bought it in the first place........knowing it shared a serial number with a previous guitar he owned.

........I guess that's one way to go.

 

[Stowburst]

Cool Stow, I guess it was just the way you worded it.

Yep..my grammar is all over the place! I'm from the UK.. we talk different!

 

[rumbling_groover]

The '91 classic was identified with a simple serial number check with Gibson.

The same could have been done with this guitar, not forgetting he owned and sold the original.

The facts speak for themselves. I find his response to this matter arrogant and condescending.

 

[Es Paul]

not looking good or skatterbranes. I don't see how a man who is so on top of everything, can mess up and have 2 guitars with the same serial.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

The '91 classic was identified with a simple serial number check with Gibson.

The same could have been done with this guitar, not forgetting he owned and sold the original.

The facts speak for themselves. I find his response to this matter arrogant and condescending.

The letter was a personal letter written to me the upper part was sent later

Just seems odd to try to pull any scam with all the anal Brazil guys that would be looking over it.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

Flick, you have my permission to post this email. If you do, be prepared for whatever may come of it. I would suggest you stay neutral, and not comment on anything, just post it. I am keeping a promise to myself by NOT reading or posting on the forums. Believe me, I think I am going to listen to myself. I do not need any more drama in my life, there is enough drama going on in my head as it is!

Flick. One other time I had a similar situation with a 91 Classic Flametop that I THOUGHT was a 91 R6 (the preHistoric official term for a 1960 RI before it was used to name a 56RI) 1991 was the first year the PreHistoric Flametop reissues were separated into 59 or 60 RI. The catalogs did not list a flamed Classic (Classic Plus) until 1992. In the pickup cavities there was no model designation. As you may know, starting in 1991, the PreHistorics took on MANY of the Classic's features, because the Classic was MORE accurate than the 1983-1990 PreHistorics. Furthermore, I always put double ring tuners and reflectors on my early 1960 RIs. In fact Gibson did not put the reflectors on R0s until 1996 and did not put double ring tuners on R0s until 1997 or 1998! There is more detail that I could get into. Anyway, the more I defended myself, the worse it got. I am not going to make that mistake again. The ONLY person I have to make sure I take care of, if needed, is the person who bought the Les Paul from me.

I have offered to buy it back if it is not what I said it is. He is not even going to take me up on my offer UNTIL he finds out from Gibson directly. So you see, if it IS what I say it is, he wants to keep it or sell it. (because if it IS what we think it is, it is worth TWICE what he paid for it) If it is NOT, then I will buy it back. He gets to decide on what benefits him the most. I would say that I am being reasonable and I do not think it is really anyone else's concern. I appreciate those who are my friends, but I really do not think I would be happy coming back and defending myself. I certainly do not want to read about what some are saying if it is ANYTHING like the time with the 91 Classic. Some know just enough to be dangerous! Some think they know it all. I am just tired of all things Les Paul. It is time for me to move on.

So you see, if I defend myself, I will get a hassle and engage in an unpleasant experience. If I do NOT defend myself, then the hassle and unpleasant events can happen without me. Tried it once the other way, I am now just going to become a hermit, and leave the forums to themselves.

Rod.

 

[LPCollector]

Ok.....my wife, the legal eagle, just reminded me that this is American (or what is left of it) and a man is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.......(I hate it when she is right and curbs my enthusiasm)

Really....wouldn't it be cool to find this to be an anomoly?
After all of this Hubub.....it would be a pretty famous reissue.

Sorry for the picture Flick...my bad!

 

[LPCollector]

all the anal Brazil guys

Have you been scanning the recently visited website cache in my Internet Explorer....again?

 

[rumbling_groover]

The letter was a personal letter written to me the upper part was sent later

Just seems odd to try to pull any scam with all the anal Brazil guys that would be looking over it.

I have just stated the facts and previous behaviors.

If there are undisclosed facts that provide a plausible explanation then I will be the first to listen.

So far these have not been provided.

 

[Owl]

Thanks for posting, Flick.

 

[996ttcab]

The letter was a personal letter written to me the upper part was sent later

Just seems odd to try to pull any scam with all the anal Brazil guys that would be looking over it.

I mean seriously, IF for a second he knew the guitar was legitimant, do you guys think he could have kept it a secret or not posted a picture of it on the forums? Why did Skatterbrane chose not to sell this one guitar on ebay when he sells other high end guitars on ebay? Perhaps to avoid scrutiny?

Would he have not offered to sell to someone willing to pay top dollar? Did he go to you guys who are collectors willing to pay top dollar or go to someone who obviously is a neophyte? Did he also sell it for a low ball price to move it quickly and surreptitiously?

Did anyone else hear about this rare guitar when Skatterbrane had it? Would Skatterbrane never tell anyone when he had a nice new and rare item to sell?

His actions or inactions along with the circumstances may be construed as pretty compelling.

A DA would prosecute this case in a second off what we know as it would be such an easy case to win. I have too many friends and old law school buddies who are DAs and I hear about this stuff all the time.

 

[rumbling_groover]

I agree, the facts speak for themselves until new facts arise that prove otherwise.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

I mean seriously, IF for a second he knew the guitar was legitimant, do you guys think he could have kept it a secret or not posted a picture of it on the forums? Why did Skatterbrane chose not to sell this one guitar on ebay when he sells other high end guitars on ebay? Perhaps to avoid scrutiny?

Would he have not offered to sell to someone willing to pay top dollar? Did he go to you guys who are collectors willing to pay top dollar or go to someone who obviously is a neophyte? Did he also sell it for a low ball price to move it quickly and surreptitiously?

Did anyone else hear about this rare guitar when Skatterbrane had it? Would Skatterbrane never tell anyone when he had a nice new and rare item to sell?

His actions or inactions along with the circumstances may be construed as pretty compelling.

A DA would prosecute this case in a second off what we know as it would be such an easy case to win. I have too many friends and old law school buddies who are DAs and I hear about this stuff all the time.

Wasn't it sold on ebay ?

 

[Mike60]

...Why did Skatterbrane chose not to sell this one guitar on ebay...

this guitar in question WAS for sale on Ebay recently.the auction was pulled and the guitar was sold off ebay.

 

[92Classic]

Flick, you have my permission to post this email. If you do, be prepared for whatever may come of it. I would suggest you stay neutral, and not comment on anything, just post it. I am keeping a promise to myself by NOT reading or posting on the forums. Believe me, I think I am going to listen to myself. I do not need any more drama in my life, there is enough drama going on in my head as it is!

Flick. One other time I had a similar situation with a 91 Classic Flametop that I THOUGHT was a 91 R6 (the preHistoric official term for a 1960 RI before it was used to name a 56RI) 1991 was the first year the PreHistoric Flametop reissues were separated into 59 or 60 RI. The catalogs did not list a flamed Classic (Classic Plus) until 1992. In the pickup cavities there was no model designation. As you may know, starting in 1991, the PreHistorics took on MANY of the Classic's features, because the Classic was MORE accurate than the 1983-1990 PreHistorics. Furthermore, I always put double ring tuners and reflectors on my early 1960 RIs. In fact Gibson did not put the reflectors on R0s until 1996 and did not put double ring tuners on R0s until 1997 or 1998! There is more detail that I could get into. Anyway, the more I defended myself, the worse it got. I am not going to make that mistake again. The ONLY person I have to make sure I take care of, if needed, is the person who bought the Les Paul from me.

I have offered to buy it back if it is not what I said it is. He is not even going to take me up on my offer UNTIL he finds out from Gibson directly. So you see, if it IS what I say it is, he wants to keep it or sell it. (because if it IS what we think it is, it is worth TWICE what he paid for it) If it is NOT, then I will buy it back. He gets to decide on what benefits him the most. I would say that I am being reasonable and I do not think it is really anyone else's concern. I appreciate those who are my friends, but I really do not think I would be happy coming back and defending myself. I certainly do not want to read about what some are saying if it is ANYTHING like the time with the 91 Classic. Some know just enough to be dangerous! Some think they know it all. I am just tired of all things Les Paul. It is time for me to move on.

So you see, if I defend myself, I will get a hassle and engage in an unpleasant experience. If I do NOT defend myself, then the hassle and unpleasant events can happen without me. Tried it once the other way, I am now just going to become a hermit, and leave the forums to themselves.

Rod.

Sounds like a load of BS to me - what ever

 

[Texas07R8]

Well the water is still muddy...

No word on the BZ duplicate SN or where it came from??? I dunno, but it sure smells bad and I don't know who is at fault here but the odds of one guy with two expensive BZ guitars with the same SN, I'm trying real hard to rationalize it but can't get there from here. And why would someone sell a guitar for half of what it's worth if it's the real thing?

 

[JonMan94]

It may be not what it is, But i would buy it anyway.... its a sweet freaking axe for gods sake!!!!!!!

 

[st.bede]

wow....things do not look good...I can only hope that whatever it takes, all will turn out as good as it can....if x really did something wrong I would have to think there was a need (as always does not justifie the action) but as it may be, everyone gets hurt....