Wiring of toggle switch and capacitor

[Isaac.t]

Hi all
im planning on buying a Fender Telecaster Blacktop it has only one volume one tone pot and a 3 way crl switch.
What i want to do is have two capacitors one for the bridge and one for the neck pickup now is there a way to wire the capacitors so that they only work on the selected pickup.
So i go to flick the toggle switch to the rhythm pickup and it has a .015uf capacitor that kicks in and then i go to flick the switch to bridge position which runs a .022uf capacitor.
If this is possible how would i have to wire it and also will both capacitors work if i select middle position.
Im also planning on wiring in a push/pull to split the coils

 

[David Collins]

With a standard Tele 3-way, no, it won't work. You could rig it up for .015μf in bridge and middle and .022μf in the neck, or .015μf bridge / .022μf neck with no tone in the middle, but I can't see any way to wire exactly as you wanted. Either of these arrangements would also eliminate the option of output loading the tone pot (a.k.a. 50's wiring) if that were of any concern.

 

[Isaac.t]

With a standard Tele 3-way, no, it won't work. You could rig it up for .015μf in bridge and middle and .022μf in the neck, or .015μf bridge / .022μf neck with no tone in the middle, but I can't see any way to wire exactly as you wanted. Either of these arrangements would also eliminate the option of output loading the tone pot (a.k.a. 50's wiring) if that were of any concern.

Hmm ao maybe i have to run them both off
.022uf cap they will be running off a
500k pot i did want to try the CTS 300k there if it sounds too harsh i just dont know how the neck pickup would cope with having a less bright cap and pot derate whO knows

 

[David Collins]

If you're concerned with the sound of the pickups with the tone on 10, then putting caps in different pickup positions is not an effective way of controlling this anyway. Different caps should be used for different pickups when you want to affect their sound with the tone rolled back. Putting a .022μf cap in the bridge position isn't going to darken or warm it up any more than a .015μf cap though, or at least not until you dial your tone knob down to the bottom third of its range.

If you want to darken up the bridge pickup more, this would be better done by resistance loading than with a cap. It's quite simple to add something like a 470kΩ resistor to lower the effective pot value either in just the bridge position, or both bridge and middle if you like.

Either way though, it sounds to me as though you don't even have the guitar yet, so how do you know it needs any of this at all? Get it, play it, and if there's something you want to change, make decisions based on actual observations. It may be fine as it is, or may end up having to go in a totally different direction. Until you actually play and hear it, it's all just speculation.

 

[Indyclone]

It can be done.
Personally, I might just stick with a .022 for both though.

The only issue would be the middle switch position.
With both pickups on, both capacitors will be on, and in parallel, meaning .015 + .022 = .037 capacitor.

I don't think that's a bad thing though.

Here's how you could wire it.

 

[David Collins]

It can be done.


Here's how you could wire it.

Ah, of course...

Don't know how I missed that.

 

[dpgumby]

It can be done.
Personally, I might just stick with a 0.22 for both though.

The only issue would be the middle switch position.
With both pickups on, both capacitors will be on, and in parallel, meaning 0.15 + 0.22 = 0.37 capacitor.

I don't think that's a bad thing though.

Here's how you could wire it.

I'm not sure that would work - when you are on the neck or bridge position, the bridge and neck are connected via the two tone capacitors, so they are not isolated from each other. I'm not certain exactly what this would do, but I think you would get a blended tone of some kind. Might be worth a try though.

The only way I can think of to do it (without changing the switch) is to use a stacked tandem tone pot so you create two separate tone circuits on the one knob. Connect them in on the pickup side of the switch. That would do it. I'm not sure how worthwhile it would be though.

 

[Indyclone]

I'm not sure that would work - when you are on the neck or bridge position, the bridge and neck are connected via the two tone capacitors, so they are not isolated from each other. I'm not certain exactly what this would do, but I think you would get a blended tone of some kind. Might be worth a try though.

The only way I can think of to do it (without changing the switch) is to use a stacked tandem tone pot so you create two separate tone circuits on the one knob. Connect them in on the pickup side of the switch. That would do it. I'm not sure how worthwhile it would be though.

It will work, it will just make both capacitors active, and parallel to each other. This would be like having a .037 capacitor when both pups are on.


I just realized that I made a decimal boo boo earlier...

Don't put either a 0.15 or 0.22 in your guitar... that should be 0.015 and 0.022..

 

[dpgumby]

It will work, it will just make both capacitors active, and parallel to each other. This would be like having a .037 capacitor when both pups are on.

Yes, I accept that in the middle position the caps are working in parallel,, that's fine - what I am saying is that when you're in neck or bridge, the high side of the pups are connected via the two caps in series, with the centre point (between the caps) going to the tone pot. So the unselected pup is also connected to the output via the two caps in series. This might have an undesirable effect. It probably means that the high frequencies from the unselected pup are going to bleed through to the output.

 

[jonesy]

You could use a push pull pot in the tone position and wire up two different size capacitors to it. When the push pull was down the .022 would be on, and when you pulled it out the .015 would be on. I have done that on a couple of my own guitars before and it works good, just a thought.

 

[Mookakian]

A Concentric tone pot may get you what you need as well

 

[Indyclone]

Yes, I accept that in the middle position the caps are working in parallel,, that's fine - what I am saying is that when you're in neck or bridge, the high side of the pups are connected via the two caps in series, with the centre point (between the caps) going to the tone pot. So the unselected pup is also connected to the output via the two caps in series. This might have an undesirable effect. It probably means that the high frequencies from the unselected pup are going to bleed through to the output.

Ahh, ok, I got you now.... Good catch.

If you wire them to the opposite side of the switch then they'll always be in parallel.

So, it won't work... or at least as intended.

 

[Isaac.t]

Either way though, it sounds to me as though you don't even have the guitar yet, so how do you know it needs any of this at all? Get it, play it, and if there's something you want to change, make decisions based on actual observations. It may be fine as it is, or may end up having to go in a totally different direction. Until you actually play and hear it, it's all just speculation.

I do know what they sound like also i know what they sound like with the pick ups installed though i sold that guitar a long time ago before i knew what these sounded like with lowered valued pots.The Pickups that are going to be installed are made by Bill and becky XL500 bridge and L500R in the neck. This pickup is hot and can be harsh at loud volumes gigwise.
Im only just learning all this and didnt know that the capacitor value didnt matter until the tone pot was turned down i always thought that if the capacitor was around 15uf or say lower it would make the pickup brighter sounding even when the tone pot is at max.
If this is the case then i would just leave the 22uf there and wire both pickups in as per normal and maybe use a resistor like you said to lower the volume pot to maybe 400k do you have a wiring diagram that i could look at on where to place the resistor also i will be using a 500k push/pull tone pot would i have to lower the resistance on this and is it possible?
Will lowering the tone pot do anything to the sound or is this method only needed to be done on the volume pot to reduce the harsh trebs.
I will be using the push/pull for coil splitting

 

[Isaac.t]

Also another thing placing a resistor on a 500k pot to reduce it to 300k vs a 300k pot is there a difference in quality of tone

 

[jonesy]

Push pull pots also come in 250K vs 500K if that is a concern. A Lower value volume pot will give you a darker more compressed sound. Adding a resistor to a 500K pot will change the load but the sweep will not be the same as a 250K. Keep in mind many old Fender Tele's from the 70's had 1M voulme pots.

 

[Isaac.t]

Push pull pots also come in 250K vs 500K if that is a concern. A Lower value volume pot will give you a darker more compressed sound. Adding a resistor to a 500K pot will change the load but the sweep will not be the same as a 250K. Keep in mind many old Fender Tele's from the 70's had 1M voulme pots.

Well i never reduce the volume on the taper my only concern is if a potentiometer with a resistor rated for say 300k would sound different to a audiotaper thats actually rated for 300k(without resistor) i also wanted to know if you had to reduce the tone pot to the same rating as well for it to get that compressed effect and if it were a push/pull are you able to join a resistor to it whilst using it for coil splitting otherwise ill just install a switch for coil splitting

 

[jonesy]

Well i never reduce the volume on the taper my only concern is if a potentiometer with a resistor rated for say 300k would sound different to a audiotaper thats actually rated for 300k(without resistor) i also wanted to know if you had to reduce the tone pot to the same rating as well for it to get that compressed effect and if it were a push/pull are you able to join a resistor to it whilst using it for coil splitting otherwise ill just install a switch for coil splitting

Well a potentiometer is a variable resistor and they all can have slightly different tapers etc. If you are adding a resistor and basically using the pot as a fixed resistor to load the circuit then you won't notice that much difference until you try to roll it off then it will react very differently.

From my experience the value of the tone pot will not have nearly as much effect as the value of the volume pot. A larger value volume pot like 500K or 1M will open up or brighten up your tone and a lower volume pot like 300K or 250K will darken or compress the tone and that has to do with the load on the pickup. Inductance (pu's), resistance (pots) and capacitance all effect your resonant peak frequency. Sometimes it takes a little tinkering to get the desired results.

 

[Isaac.t]

Well a potentiometer is a variable resistor and they all can have slightly different tapers etc. If you are adding a resistor and basically using the pot as a fixed resistor to load the circuit then you won't notice that much difference until you try to roll it off then it will react very differently.

From my experience the value of the tone pot will not have nearly as much effect as the value of the volume pot. A larger value volume pot like 500K or 1M will open up or brighten up your tone and a lower volume pot like 300K or 250K will darken or compress the tone and that has to do with the load on the pickup. Inductance (pu's), resistance (pots) and capacitance all effect your resonant peak frequency. Sometimes it takes a little tinkering to get the desired results.

Sounds about right to me couldn't be any clearer thank you for the help ill go ahead with the wiring once i find a decent fender telecaster blacktop on ebay also will be purchasing from rsguitarworks they seem to have very good pots

 

[jonesy]

Sounds about right to me couldn't be any clearer thank you for the help ill go ahead with the wiring once i find a decent fender telecaster blacktop on ebay also will be purchasing from rsguitarworks they seem to have very good pots

Your welcome always glad to help. WD Music USA has some 10% CTS 250K pot's that actually read 250-270K and have a smooth custom taper. They also have the 10% CTS550K's as well. Hope your project turns out like you want it to and be sure to post some pics if you score a sweet Tele