Jimmy Page ... History of his Guitars !!!

[steve13281]

So on the #1 reissues, you can't get an "In Phase " in the middle , is that correct?

In the Video, Jimmy explains to Edwin, on Jimmys guitar, the Push Pull activates the OOP...
From what I understand, the reissue is different in that it utilises the push pull as a 'coil split' ( an extra feature) while the toggle selects OOP.. Am I wrong Steve?

No, you only get OOP in the middle position on the stock #1. Also, no push/pulls on the stock Page #1. Adjusting the volumes gives you varying levels of quack. I very rarely used the full out of phase sound on my #1, which is when you have to volume of both the bridge and neck turned to the same spot. Adjusting the volumes gives a bunch of different levels of OOP sound.

As I rarely used it in my #1 I took out the stock wiring harness and put real 50’s bumblebees, 550 k pots and Wizz pickups in and I’m much happier with it. If I want the OOP sound I use the #2. I love Peter Green but the OOP is not my favorite for my own playing.

Edit: oops, I stand corrected. There is a push pull in the stock Page#1 wiring but it splits the bridge pickups coils. I changed it out so quick after I picked up the guitar I forgot about it.

 

[Underwound]

Well, it's odd Gibson didn't listen to a word Jimmy said about the wiring in that video interview, and did something completely different, and even more bizarre that the great man signed off on it.
I quess, had they replicated the wiring in the vid , it would be an incarnation of Jimmys guitar in 2003/2004 , not the iconic Zeppelin instrument (1969-April 72) or (May 1972-1980) which was quite different electrically.

I think many people who bought that Reissue may have thought they were buying a Zeppelin era replica.Gibson weren't exactly mis-leading, but weren't exactly forthcoming either.

 

[ReWind James]

All of the Page reissues have had the pickups and wiring wrong (and for any period of time you want to consider Page's guitars, much less the original Led Zeppelin era), as far as I know.

Didn’t they use Burstbuckers with A3s in the #1 with the coil split, anyway? At that point, they are just trying to fix with wiring what they couldn't get right with pickups, or they just don't care and are trying to offer something they think will be good enough to sell them (and it was, obviously).

In fact, Gibson did that in nearly all of the signature guitars.

 

[steve13281]

If I’m remembering correctly, the modified wiring on Page’s #1 was done after Zeppelin was done so it was stock back then. There was a pickup swap in 72, (in Japan ?) to a T Top.

 

[Underwound]

All of the Page reissues have had the pickups and wiring wrong (and for any period of time you want to consider Page's guitars, much less the original Led Zeppelin era), as far as I know.

Didn’t they use Burstbuckers with A3s in the #1 with the coil split, anyway? At that point, they are just trying to fix with wiring what they couldn't get right with pickups, or they just don't care and are trying to offer something they think will be good enough to sell them (and it was, obviously).

In fact, Gibson did that in nearly all of the signature guitars.

Yes, well Jimmy's Zeppelin Pickups are long gone, and Gibson may not have any "ears" to make them from scratch.(Luthiers do not necessarily voice pickups)
This is why there are Reissues out there with your Pre/Post 72s and my Madison Square Garden 73 reissues.

 

[ReWind James]

If I’m remembering correctly, the modified wiring on Page’s #1 was done after Zeppelin was done so it was stock back then. There was a pickup swap in 72, (in Japan ?) to a T Top.

Correct (except the T-Top swap happened in the Australia / New Zealand tour in late February 1972). ...but the wiring that Gibson used on the #1 "reissue" is an arrangement that Page never had at any point in time. I think that's the point being made.

 

[Underwound]

Correct (except the T-Top swap happened in the Australia / New Zealand tour in late February 1972). ...but the wiring that Gibson used on the #1 "reissue" is an arrangement that Page never had at any point in time. I think that's the point being made.

Timeline:: Jimmy's guitar was 'sent' from Brisbane Australia to Merv Cargill late Feb72 (Melbourne Luthier RIP). Merv Rewound the White PAF . Brisbane was the last Aussie show

My story gets lost from here: Jimmy appeared to be happy with Mervs work ( According to Merv Cargill).. However, May 27 , Zeppelins next show in Amsterdam Jimmy's has the T Top in. Did the PAF fail again or wasn't JP happy with the rewind?
I don't know .

Yes, Gibson have never reissued arguably the most famous Humbuckers ever .

 

[VictorB]

Pagebuckers? They only came in the reissues.

 

[Underwound]

If I’m remembering correctly, the modified wiring on Page’s #1 was done after Zeppelin was done so it was stock back then. There was a pickup swap in 72, (in Japan ?) to a T Top.

Yes Steve, you're right. The 1st "huge" wiring Job was first done on Jimmy's seldom used #2 circa 1985 by Steve Hoyland.(The Firm era)
Of those many sounds, JP liked the OOP one. That one mod finally made its way to his #1. .Nothing to do with Zeppelin though.

 

[Underwound]

Pagebuckers? They only came in the reissues.

Pagebuckers? Edwin measured the pickups in JPs guitar in that YT video behind the scenes.(2003?)
They were Seymour Duncan pickups weren't they? (According to Seymour Duncan they were) That's what Gibson tried to copy.

 

[VictorB]

Pagebuckers? Edwin measured the pickups in JPs guitar in that YT video behind the scenes.(2003?)
They were Seymour Duncan pickups weren't they? (According to Seymour Duncan they were) That's what Gibson tried to copy.

@DADGAD can shed some light on this.

 

[JimmyAce2006]

They were Page buckers - allegedly the first Gibson pickups with AL3 magnets, precursors to today's CBs. Basically, they were CBs with output that matched what was in Page's #1 at the time that it was inspected.

 

[Mr French]

Isn't this the 10th pickup debate in the same thread? Lol

Sorry fellas.

Pickups will still be subjective no matter what and I'd say his tone was mainly from his amp. Hell I posted a video of led zep with Ron wood as special guest guitarist and he sounded exactly like Jimmys tone it was is tuff to differentiate the two.

Video is probably 20 pages back now lol

 

[Underwound]

They were Page buckers - allegedly the first Gibson pickups with AL3 magnets, precursors to today's CBs. Basically, they were CBs with output that matched what was in Page's #1 at the time that it was inspected.

Yes, and from what I understand , those inspected were pickups that went in (Maybe 90s I'm unsure?) courtesy of Seymour Duncan.
By time the 2007 O2 concert happened, his Les Paul was a massive departure sonically from what we heard in the early Zeppelin bootleg recordings or MSG 73.

 

[JimmyAce2006]

Yes, and from what I understand , those inspected were pickups that went in (Maybe 90s I'm unsure?) courtesy of Seymour Duncan.
By time the 2007 O2 concert happened, his Les Paul was a massive departure sonically from what we heard in the early Zeppelin bootleg recordings or MSG 73.

Everyone always complains about the tone of #1 at the O2. But it may have been the way he had it adjusted in his rig.


........

 

[Underwound]

Everyone always complains about the tone of #1 at the O2. But it may have been the way he had it adjusted in his rig.


........

Absolutely 100% Jimmy Ace.Could well be the rig.That said , there is a few accounts of Seymour Duncan getting involved in the 1990s .Tim Mills of Bare Knuckles pickups ( Tone Talk episode 108 53:40 ) says :when he (Tim Mills) inspected the guitar Jimmy P told Lionel (minder of guitar )to tell Tim Mills the pickups had been changed but couldn't remember when. Neither the neck PAF nor the bridge Pickup (Similar to a Duncan 59 Tim said)were original .

 

[ReWind James]

Absolutely 100% Jimmy Ace.Could well be the rig.That said , there is a few accounts of Seymour Duncan getting involved in the 1990s .Tim Mills of Bare Knuckles pickups ( Tone Talk episode 108 53:40 ) says :when he (Tim Mills) inspected the guitar Jimmy P told Lionel (minder of guitar )to tell Tim Mills the pickups had been changed but couldn't remember when. Neither the neck PAF nor the bridge Pickup (Similar to a Duncan 59 Tim said)were original .

Yes. Tim said the same in another video interview, as well, and has shared the story around here and elsewhere, when he was more active.

...and that 8.2k (or up to 8.6k, depending on which time he tells the story) DCR reading of the neck pickup from in the guitar, is what everyone goes by for Page's #1 neck PAF in Zeppelin. ...while entirely glossing over the fact that in the very same place they got that info, Tim says, just a couple sentences earlier, that it was not the original PAF from Zeppelin when he measured it.

Same with the A2 magnet. That's from the replacement PAF examined. Not the original. ...and the replacement PAF wasn't taken apart. So, the magnet was measured over the cover and gave a weak reading. That means it could have been an A2, or it could also be any other magnet type which is just reading weak or giving an inaccurate measurement through the bobbins, coils, and the cover. Now, Tim's no fool and knows what a vintage A2 sounds like, so perhaps he took that into account and failed to mention it, but he only talked about the measurement of it, which is what has somehow become the definitive of Page's #1 having an A2 PAF in Zeppelin. Not saying it isn't. Just saying Tim's account has nothing to do with what the original was. He wasn't talking about the original, nor measuring in a definitive way.

People not only get caught up on specs, but they also get so excited about specs they can ignore the context in which they came from. That goes for pros and individual alike. When people talk about the PAF in Page's #1 LP, they are often discussing a PAF that was installed after Zeppelin, and Tim's account of it, but not even realizing that.

Really - this is no different from EVHs 12301 amp. There's VERY LITTLE firm info about what it was, during the time it made the music it's famous for. Only conflicting accounts, a few photos from one angle, and all the more complete documentation is from way way later, during a time when it had been changed and changed and worked on over and over again, and is no longer the same piece of equipment that made those original recordings.

 

[Underwound]

Spot on James, only to add while the 'Page Buckers' weren't Zeppelin inspired, the Duncan WLH were probably even less so. I've had many an email from disgruntled Zeppelin tone chasers who fell for that WLH set. (Good Pickups with a strange name)

 

[huw]

...The 1st "huge" wiring Job was first done on Jimmy's seldom used #2 circa 1985 by Steve Hoyland.(The Firm era)...

We know #2 had the work done by 1982 : it was first* reported on in the infamous article on Page's guitars in Guitar Heroes magazine.



* at least first to my knowledge. Back in the day I spent way more time than could be healthy trying to find an earlier source, but never did.

 

[Underwound]

We know #2 had the work done by 1982 : it was first* reported on in the infamous article on Page's guitars in Guitar Heroes magazine.



* at least first to my knowledge. Back in the day I spent way more time than could be healthy trying to find an earlier source, but never did.

It could well be 1982. My normally reliable source told me 1985. He could have been wrong? Even JP contradicts himself from time to rime ( as well all do) .
It's a long time ago to be sure of time frames