*** 1950's ABR1 Saddles ***

[Beastie28]

Totally understand that you put a lot of effort into this. And I know that the bridge makes a obvious difference. But when you ask 400€ for a bridge there should be at least a showcase somewhere where the differences between your bridge, a vintage one and maybe the stock ABR1 get highlighted. I’m interested in one of your bridges, but won’t buy one sight unseen especially for that price. Hyperbole marketing language and giving other reputable hardware makers a bad rap doesn’t help either…

These replicas are going to be attractive for restoration, i.e. for use on vintage guitars. 50's Les Pauls cost anywhere from $50k to $500k. If the hardware is not functioning properly and the owner wants to preserve tone in a hardware swap, $400-500 is a drop in the bucket and I bet folks are ecstatic they have a replica option now.

Another market are those of us who have nice Historic Reissues, and likely have already installed PAF replicas. At that point the bridge is very important to get closer to burst tone. That's my case, and why I have two vintage 50s bridges. Maybe I'll sell one of my vintage bridges and buy two of these replicas since the opportunity may not last forever or even for very long.

I have Pigtails and they function perfectly well to make the guitar playable. They sound different for sure, mine are aluminum. I know Pigtail is also making an alloy bridge, maybe like Gibson's new bridges I know nothing specific.

 

[Subterfuge]

Totally understand that you put a lot of effort into this. And I know that the bridge makes a obvious difference. But when you ask 400€ for a bridge there should be at least a showcase somewhere where the differences between your bridge, a vintage one and maybe the stock ABR1 get highlighted. I’m interested in one of your bridges, but won’t buy one sight unseen especially for that price. Hyperbole marketing language and giving other reputable hardware makers a bad rap doesn’t help either…

I watched the YouTube Video on this bridge, still a bit risky at this point but they looked pretty good in the video .. I sure would like one ..

 

[palmerfralick]

I watched the YouTube Video on this bridge, still a bit risky at this point but they looked pretty good in the video .. I sure would like one ..

what was the YouTube video named?

 

[Subterfuge]

I think I just went to Stephens Design Pickups on YouTube .. wasn't hard to find

 

[Subterfuge]

ok I looked it up, on Youtube went to the SDpickups Page and the video is called PAF UNIVERSE EPISODE # 8 ... REPLICA ABR1 FINAL SHOOT - MY ROOTS and then on the same page there is another video specifically on the "Four Uncles" ABR1

 

[fernieite]

Here's a link. No affiliation, etc, etc.

FOUR UNCLES ABR1 REPLICA BRIDGE-MOST ACCURATE IN THE WORLD - YouTube

 

[Pigtail Steve]

Theirs aren't replicas. They are mass produced and not accurate copies in materials or design and probably made in Korea or China. We're not trying to appeal to the mass public or teenagers with blue guitars . Our goal was to recreate the original, so that you coudln't tell the difference in SOUND. So that if you own a real 'Burst and are missing saddles, or have a bridge thats just too destroyed to use, you now have something to replace without any changes in tone. There simply is no one out there making actual replicas, none of them, and THAT is why I involved myself in this project. It just depends on what you are looking for. Do you want just another replacment bridge? Thats not why we made these. Each bridge has at least five hours of hand work, because mass producing them doesn't get that sound. None of the ones for sale out there do. Nobody has done what we did, and we didn't use some China company or company that only makes bridges and puts your name on it to sell. None of us are "bridge makers." You know who I am and what I do, no prisoners, no compromises, it works or it doesn't. We copied a technological artifact from the past, and we didn' just make something that looks "pretty." We DESTROYED vintage ABR1's to find out what they are actually really MADE of. None of the bridge makers out there are using these materials. The are using sharp pointy saddles they copied from the unloved Patent bridges, and they don't even know what they are doing, and seem to never have seen an original bridge saddle by the looks of what they sell. Some of them are even bragging there is no copper in the plating. Well, the originals WERE copper plated, because the highly acidic plating baths EAT ZINC unless there is a light copper "flash" plating beforehand. This isn't a money making trip for us, its just the satifaction of doing what nobody else did, or even cared about. I'm very proud of the contribution I did in this project, because it was all a crapshoot, it might not have worked at all. The metals contents don't match whats out there now, we had to have it mixed up by an 80+ year old guy who worked with these alloys way back then, and am afraid it may be a lost art. These will sell well, and already I am oversold for the next batch of ten, these aren't for everybody, they are for the serious ones who know the history and know they've not been able to get saddles or a bridge from any company that gets the sound of their expensive originals, which mostly have damaged saddles and beat up everything on them. Once you buy an original and hear what it does, THEN you understand what DROVE US to do this project. In the end we are waiting to see if we can even get our money back out of it. 5 hours manual labor to make ONE bridge, thats a real stretch, but the pleasure of successfully making something that matches the originals is pushing us to keep doing it.......for now.

 

[Pigtail Steve]

Pam Rowen, from Pigtail Music, here. Our bridges are produced here in the US (not in Korea or China) with the original die-casting methods that the originals were done with. In the past year, we have modified our saddles slightly by rounding the edges as well as making a few minor adjustments to the specs for a better and more accurate fit and performance. Our bridges are all hand-assembled in-house (for clarification from the previous member's comment).

 

[ajory72]

It would be good to get more details posted here, I have no horse in this race but it seems to me that newer ABR1 bridges from Gibson would weed out some of the older tolerances... to improve over-all performance perhaps, but possibly to the detriment of the tone...?

So apart from materials - what differs in the design of these repro versions of the ABR1 no-wire bridge?

For example, are the saddles looser, heights different in comparison, overall tolerances (fit of part) match closer making all parts fit more snugly - or is it the opposite in some cases?

I'm interested in the design... what makes these (pigtail/after market) ABR1 bridges better/different to what Gibson currently provides?

I have an ABR1 no-wire bridge on my 2019- 61'SG so am curious as to the differences with originals and reproes, I'm not after tone improvements - but how much of a difference is there?

 

[VictorB]

Theirs aren't replicas. They are mass produced and not accurate copies in materials or design and probably made in Korea or China. We're not trying to appeal to the mass public or teenagers with blue guitars . Our goal was to recreate the original, so that you coudln't tell the difference in SOUND. So that if you own a real 'Burst and are missing saddles, or have a bridge thats just too destroyed to use, you now have something to replace without any changes in tone. There simply is no one out there making actual replicas, none of them, and THAT is why I involved myself in this project. It just depends on what you are looking for. Do you want just another replacment bridge? Thats not why we made these. Each bridge has at least five hours of hand work, because mass producing them doesn't get that sound. None of the ones for sale out there do. Nobody has done what we did, and we didn't use some China company or company that only makes bridges and puts your name on it to sell. None of us are "bridge makers." You know who I am and what I do, no prisoners, no compromises, it works or it doesn't. We copied a technological artifact from the past, and we didn' just make something that looks "pretty." We DESTROYED vintage ABR1's to find out what they are actually really MADE of. None of the bridge makers out there are using these materials. The are using sharp pointy saddles they copied from the unloved Patent bridges, and they don't even know what they are doing, and seem to never have seen an original bridge saddle by the looks of what they sell. Some of them are even bragging there is no copper in the plating. Well, the originals WERE copper plated, because the highly acidic plating baths EAT ZINC unless there is a light copper "flash" plating beforehand. This isn't a money making trip for us, its just the satifaction of doing what nobody else did, or even cared about. I'm very proud of the contribution I did in this project, because it was all a crapshoot, it might not have worked at all. The metals contents don't match whats out there now, we had to have it mixed up by an 80+ year old guy who worked with these alloys way back then, and am afraid it may be a lost art. These will sell well, and already I am oversold for the next batch of ten, these aren't for everybody, they are for the serious ones who know the history and know they've not been able to get saddles or a bridge from any company that gets the sound of their expensive originals, which mostly have damaged saddles and beat up everything on them. Once you buy an original and hear what it does, THEN you understand what DROVE US to do this project. In the end we are waiting to see if we can even get our money back out of it. 5 hours manual labor to make ONE bridge, thats a real stretch, but the pleasure of successfully making something that matches the originals is pushing us to keep doing it.......for now.

This post is pure conjecture and full of your usual bullshit.

 

[ReWind James]

You know who I am and what I do...

Too arrogant to realize this actually counts against him.

 

[markguitar]

This post is pure conjecture and full of your usual bullshit.

You got that right! What a pompous ASS! Some of the so called facts are not accurate. I’ve just gotten a metallurgy report back on an original ‘50’s bridge that I sent out and have sourced the metals for the upcoming project. Just like all of his PAF BS. Sling the shit so you can charge more money.

 

[VictorB]

You got that right! What a pompous ASS! Some of the so called facts are not accurate. I’ve just gotten a metallurgy report back on an original ‘50’s bridge that I sent out and have sourced the metals for the upcoming project. Just like all of his PAF BS. Sling the shit so you can charge more money.

Wasn’t he finally exposed and then admitted to using Chinese magnets? After his hot mess of a website stated all his materials were USA made?

I believe the excuse of the day was, “Chinese magnets are more vintage correct”.



Fucking tool.

 

[MCT]

Whatever my impression of Dave Stephens as an individual or a businessperson, I cannot deny that his pickups are stellar, and I’d imagine these bridges are as well.

Re: his claims, I have absolutely no information to think one way or another because metallurgic analyses of vintage LP parts (be they Alnico magnet compositions, or studies of bridge/saddle brass/Zamack) seem to be impossible to find, and therefore completely unverifiable by the consumer. So all I can go on is my sonic perceptions.

Whether the cost is fair is another story.

 

[VictorB]

$650 a set and a 200 year wait?

No thanks.

 

[MCT]

$650 a set and a 200 year wait?

No thanks.

Ya know, I hear pickups open up with time- maybe after those 200 years, they’ll sound even better

 

[VictorB]

Ya know, I hear pickups open up with time- maybe after those 200 years, they’ll sound even better

Once they “settle in”.

 

[1970Deluxe]

Here's a link. No affiliation, etc, etc.

FOUR UNCLES ABR1 REPLICA BRIDGE-MOST ACCURATE IN THE WORLD - YouTube

I watched this YouTube video ..although I had to refill my coffee mug twice to do so......

In the video, the narrator goes to great lengths to emphasize the critical importance of a repo ABR-1 needing the vintage-correct metallurgy, zinc, wide brass saddles, electroplating, etc. Okay so far, but why on earth would you choose a Chinese-made Epiphone Elite Les Paul as your "test-bed" guitar? That modern Epiphone LP is constructed nothing like a vintage 1959 Les Paul Standard. I don't care if you replaced the wiring harness AND pickups with your own in-house SD parts, you'll never get close to the true sound of a vintage '59 Les Paul. IMO that's a huge shortcoming with the comparison demo in the video.

 

[MCT]

I watched this YouTube video ..although I had to refill my coffee mug twice to do so......

In the video, the narrator goes to great lengths to emphasize the critical importance of a repo ABR-1 needing the vintage-correct metallurgy, zinc, wide brass saddles, electroplating, etc. Okay so far, but why on earth would you choose a Chinese-made Epiphone Elite Les Paul as your "test-bed" guitar? That modern Epiphone LP is constructed nothing like a vintage 1959 Les Paul Standard. I don't care if you replaced the wiring harness AND pickups with your own in-house SD parts, you'll never get close to the true sound of a vintage '59 Les Paul. IMO that's a huge shortcoming with the comparison demo in the video.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that a Japanese Elitist? If so, it’s actually not as differently built as you’d think.

 

[Sunburstman]

Wasn’t he finally exposed and then admitted to using Chinese magnets? After his hot mess of a website stated all his materials were USA made?

I believe the excuse of the day was, “Chinese magnets are more vintage correct”.



Fucking tool.

This so funny!!!! I agree! I bought vintage saddles from RandK on ebay, alot cheaper and great quality saddles!