Yay or nay on decking the stopbar

01GT Eibach

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Joe never said to drop the tailpiece all the way down on a Les Paul ..
Well, yes and no ... what he said in this interview was that (and I quote) "the tailpiece needs to be all the way down to the body to maximize the sustain". I am a big Joe Walsh and took the extrapolation of that exact comment maybe too literally for my particular situation. My bad.
 

sonar1

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Well, yes and no ... what he said in this interview was that (and I quote) "the tailpiece needs to be all the way down to the body to maximize the sustain". I am a big Joe Walsh and took the extrapolation of that exact comment maybe too literally for my particular situation. My bad.
Lots of people claim more sustain from: slammed tailpiece; heavier hardware; long neck tenon; heavier tuner gearsets; weight of guitar; size of neck; nitro finish; the type of weight relief; non weight-relieved; ad nauseam.

Others will point out exceptions to all the above based on “personal experience.” Me included.

All I know is I can hear my LP has more sustain than my Tele, but my Tele has enough sustain for the way I phrase.
 

mudface

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Lots of people claim more sustain from: slammed tailpiece; heavier hardware; long neck tenon; heavier tuner gearsets; weight of guitar; size of neck; nitro finish; the type of weight relief; non weight-relieved; ad nauseam.

Others will point out exceptions to all the above based on “personal experience.” Me included.

All I know is I can hear my LP has more sustain than my Tele, but my Tele has enough sustain for the way I phrase.
Yup.... in a 3 minute song you ain’t got a lot of room for 20 second sustained notes.... and my worse guitar can do that.
 

Phillycheez402

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Yup.... in a 3 minute song you ain’t got a lot of room for 20 second sustained notes.... and my worse guitar can do that.
I have a Trad Pro V That has such playability that falls into the category of "this guitar can do anything"

People would be amazed the sounds you can get out of certain guitars.
 

jk60LPTH

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Well, yes and no ... what he said in this interview was that (and I quote) "the tailpiece needs to be all the way down to the body to maximize the sustain". I am a big Joe Walsh and took the extrapolation of that exact comment maybe too literally for my particular situation. My bad.
Not sure which interview you're referring to, I thought we were talking about the one he did for Carvin that's on youtube. In that one he's talking about the bridge being 'right down on the body', not the tailpiece, and the Carvin he holds up to demonstrate that point doesn't even have a tailpiece, it's got thru-grommets. He says the bridge is right down on the body, like the old Les Pauls, he can't get anybody [guitar manufacturer] to do that, 'not even Gibson'; and he talks about sustain a little later, but it's about how the Carvin's strings line up right over the center of the pickup pole pieces, and how important that is for sustain. We must be talking about two different interviews... the one I'm talking about is called 'Joe Walsh from Carvin's DVD', but it's also under 'Eagles band - Joe Walsh talks about his Carvin Guitars California Carved Top' (not posting the links because I'm not sure that's allowed here). Let me know which interview you're referring to pls.
 
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dro

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DO what you want. Its your guitar I have different guitars set up different
Cherryburst 05.JPG

I have a pic of this one
 

Leee

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After seeing ‘54-style wrapped bridge posts leaning, and TOM tailposts leaning, I have decided that’s the first thing I want to avoid.
Crushing damage to the guitar top is an ugly problem to fix.

I slam the tailpiece on every TOM guitar I have, and I don’t like the way top wrapping feels.

If the strings break over the back of the bridge a little, which it does on a few of my guitars, I don’t worry about it.

Never had a string break at that point, and I have yet to bend an ABR bridge.

If I did bend a bridge?
That’s the easiest fix among all the other types if damage it’s possible to encounter.
 

jk60LPTH

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Decking the tailpiece increases the string break angle over the bridge. increasing the break angle increases the string tension. The increased string tension increases the resistance to string bending. The increased string tension exerts more downward force on the bridge. Downward force on the bridge is what leads to bridge collapse. There is an argument that the metal used in bridges today is of significantly higher quality than it was decades ago so there little chance of bridge collapse; I tend to err on the side of safety, so until I hear factual information about this, I remain neutral. The increased break angle also transfers some of that force laterally, pushing the bridge more towards the headstock end of the neck, and increases the risk that the bridge posts will lean in that direction. Top wrapping the strings mitigates all of those negative effects of decking the tailpiece by decreasing the break angle of the strings.
 

Jp3764

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Mine are always flush.
Thats the way they're designed.
Never had a problem.
Never had a "break angle" problem with or without touching the bridge.
In 40+ years ive never met anyone that had "bridge collapse."
FWIW $.02
 

jk60LPTH

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I wonder if the term "bridge collapse" is understood as what it really is by some. The bridge doesn't literally collapse, it's more like a "bridge sag", difficult to see sometimes unless the bridge is removed and a straight edge is placed across the body.
 

Leee

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Please allow me to go ahead and throw a turd in the punch bowl here…
... increasing the break angle increases the string tension
IT DOES NOT INCREASE STRING TENSION.
Using the tuner increases the string tension, and thereby changes the pitch. Increased string tension would mean the tuning is sharp.

F
B flat
E flat
G would be sharp
C
F

And so on.

Tune your guitar to standard E, or however you normally tune it, and the string tension will never change as long as you use the same gauge of strings.
I don’t care how you route your strings, the tension between the nut and the bridge saddle will always be the same.

Increased resistance to travel through the bridge saddle might make bends more difficult, but I don’t even see that.
Not considering the mere microscopic amount of travel strings would have at the bridge saddle when the string is pushed sharp.
It’s just not enough to be discernible.

You may now return to your regular thread discussion. :)
 
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palmerfralick

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Doing a little research on whether there are any benefits to lowering the stopbar down to be flush as there seems to be a theoretical (or actual) benefit to the guitar's resonance.

Is there any real benefit to lowering the stopbar down? What drawbacks are there? I've heard that you can collapse the bridge. Is this true? For ABRs or TOMs? Or both?

I admit most of the changes I make are because I like the way it looks. Hmmm that does look better.......I doubt many of us do audio forensics after a mod.

Rewire It! Ar Ar Ar... - Tim Allen Home Improvement | Meme Generator
 

Leee

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Changes the "attack" for sure.
Well, OK.
But what does “attack” mean here?
You know, precisely?

I’m just playing devil’s advocate here because I just can’t get too excited about squishy and amorphous descriptions and enthusiastic testimonials that simply cannot be proven.
The lingo gets loose, and nothing really means anything.

If this or that or something else is your preference, that’s great.
If you want to give reasons why, even better.
But it’s got to be something I can put my fingers on, so to speak.
 

Burst Boy

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I have a couple of ES355 style guitars, yes I know not Les Pauls but same principle, one has a decked stopbar and the other set to the same height as a trapeze tailpiece giving the same string angle, give or take a degree or two. Both are set with the same action and relief. The 'trapeze angle' guiar is a lot slinkier and easier to bend strings but has a similar sustain to the decked guitar, which does seem 'plinkier' when not amplified.

My preference is to set the angle of the strings to roughly the same as if a trapeze tailpiece was fitted. It works for for trapeze fiited guitars and works for me with stopbar fitted guitars, and seems like a good compromise.

Not everyone will agree becasue of different ideas. I accept that, each to their own
 

Phillycheez402

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Tried top wrapping an LP last night and sp far I'm really kinda digging it!
 

CerebralGasket

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I wonder if the term "bridge collapse" is understood as what it really is by some. The bridge doesn't literally collapse, it's more like a "bridge sag", difficult to see sometimes unless the bridge is removed and a straight edge is placed across the body.


 

Phillycheez402

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Although I just noticed something, the tailpiece isnt sitting 100% flush into the posts... the back end of it is lifted, and it doesnt appear to be normal. I'll snap a couple pics gimme a sec
 


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