Wiring harness in historics?

aticus

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Do Custom shop historics use correct vintage good quality wiring and electronics like those Luxe Bumble bees and CTS pots like martin6strings, tundratone or jonesy or crazy parts offering the best of the best out there?


I know that my Históric 2013 59 335 carry Bumble bees but im ignorant of how the electronics inside compare To this Prewired harness assemblies

Are those an upgrade for a Históric 335?


Thanks for all the help you give Folks!
Im new and trying To learn
RnR!
 

JMB1984

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Many would say it is an upgrade, but that is debatable. It depends on if you think that the guitar is lacking something and the harness improves what is lacking without sacrificing something else.
 

aticus

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Aja

Do they use CTS Pots? Correct Bumble bees or fake ones?
The Wire is vintage correct?
I love 335s but when you see 5000 bucks for a historic and you take off one volume knob and see that is a piece of plastic shit i think that they should have a bit moré respect and put at least RS Aged knobs or better quality components

My main doubt is if there is a better after market 50s wiring harness kit Than inside my 2013 Históric 59?...... Although for 5K the best should be in there
Just wonder if someone knows exactly whats inside a 2013-2014 historics with those improvements they say

Thanks
 

Sct13

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One of the complaints is that the stock pots can sound muddy when turned down or the the pot acts like an on off switch, with almost no variance in volume as you turn it down, the suddenly (near 2 or 3) the pickup turns off.

It frustrating if this happens if your a knob user. Some like it full on all the time and this does not bother them.

So you have to really listen to yours and decide. I have had a few sound just fine.

For me its how it "cleans up" as I bring the level down, I still want loud and clear at 5 or 7 but not gritty. (I don't use pedals) I let the pick up and the amp interact.

A 335 is difficult to mod if you have never done it before.

hope this helps.
 

SteveC

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Not exactly a perfect A/B comparison but, I have a MartinSixStringsCustom harness in my '81 LPC.

The Vol pots in the MSSC harness do have a bit more usable range than those in the stock harness in my '13 R9. That said, I gig both and I never have any problems switching between either guitar and I ride the Vol pots a lot!!!

The Tone circuitry is almost the same in both, to my ears. But, I don't' chase tone via caps, so someone more attuned (no pun) to the difference in caps might chime in on that, with more detail. I'll just call them both "even".

FWIW, I believe that the MSSC harness is a MAJOR upgrade to the stock electronics in the '81LPC, but I wouldn't replace the harness in the '13 R9. The little bit of Vol range improvement is not that important to me.

YMMV
 

madaxeman

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The pots in my '01 and '02 reissues had a very nice taper so i left em alone.

Those that came in my'03 r7 were on off switches and total junk so they had to go.
 

JMB1984

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Aja

Do they use CTS Pots? Correct Bumble bees or fake ones?
The Wire is vintage correct?
I love 335s but when you see 5000 bucks for a historic and you take off one volume knob and see that is a piece of plastic shit i think that they should have a bit moré respect and put at least RS Aged knobs or better quality components

<snip>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with this post it seems that with the "upgrade" question asked in the OP you are more concerned with historical accuracy and perceived quality of construction. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

It has CTS pots, but the Bumble Bees are repros that are not made the same way. The are fully functional and maintain the "look" but they are not paper and oil like the original Bumble Bees.
 

sikoniko

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but with this post it seems that with the "upgrade" question asked in the OP you are more concerned with historical accuracy and perceived quality of construction. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

It has CTS pots, but the Bumble Bees are repros that are not made the same way. The are fully functional and maintain the "look" but they are not paper and oil like the original Bumble Bees.

Not all vintage bumble bee's were PIO. some were Mylar.

I find that it has more to do with how you achieve your sound. In the days of having amps with no master volume (before my time), the only way to clean up was to use the volume (like Sct13 suggested). The tone controls also gave you a variance - a la "woman tone".

With the advent of two (or more) channel amps, a lot of people switch clean and dirty between the two channels (or use a pedal to get a dirty sound). Pedals can also be nice because you can make your amp take on different characteristics... thus giving you the effect of having different types of amps by only using one...

If you are going for a modern sound, leaving everything at 10 is fine... if you want a vintage tone, you are best served using the other method (cranked to 10 and attenuate your amp) and getting the pots and caps that will enable that.
 

JMB1984

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Not all vintage bumble bee's were PIO. some were Mylar.

I find that it has more to do with how you achieve your sound. In the days of having amps with no master volume (before my time), the only way to clean up was to use the volume (like Sct13 suggested). The tone controls also gave you a variance - a la "woman tone".

With the advent of two (or more) channel amps, a lot of people switch clean and dirty between the two channels (or use a pedal to get a dirty sound). Pedals can also be nice because you can make your amp take on different characteristics... thus giving you the effect of having different types of amps by only using one...

If you are going for a modern sound, leaving everything at 10 is fine... if you want a vintage tone, you are best served using the other method (cranked to 10 and attenuate your amp) and getting the pots and caps that will enable that.

Yea for what it's worth, I play single channel 90% of the time and I'm adjusting the controls all over the place to achieve different sounds. The stock pots and caps in my Historics (2011-2014) have always cleaned up just fine for me. Maybe it would be different if I replaced them, but I don't feel that I am missing anything to warrant doing so.
 

aticus

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Thanks again bros...
I appreciate te help sincerely and agree with most of you. It Depends if that works for you
As Im changing the pups to Mark's Ox4 in my históric 335 i thought if it was worth trying from the begining a correct wiring

I Want to share with you what i Received from people like Matt at martin6string or robert van del Ende in europe about it. More vintage accurate and could end in some little changes overall

"Yes, it will be an upgrade as the pots are better (more and smoother control over tone and volume) and the capacitor will make a for a smoother tone transition. The total will make your es 335 sound more open"

"Yes, in my opinion, the prewired harness would be a significant upgrade to the stock electronics in your 335. The pots I use are custom audio taper CTS550K pots, which not only spec better in resistance, the roll off is much more gradual. The Luxe caps are true in construction to the originals, something the Gibson bee's are not. Inside the shell of the Gibson bee's is a VERY cheap Wesco cap. Literally less than $1 and no where near accurate to the originals."
 

Sct13

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One more thing, While I am all for a pickup change, (and Ox4 is a good choice) it good to do the pots first, see how your pickups respond to that first.

Good Luck! :)
 

SteveC

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One thing for sure, if you do decide to upgrade your guitar with a MSSC harness, Matt will take very good care of you. And, the harness will be crafted to the finest standards. His work is flawless and only the best "ingredients" are used.
 

MATTM

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One thing for sure, if you do decide to upgrade your guitar with a MSSC harness, Matt will take very good care of you. And, the harness will be crafted to the finest standards. His work is flawless and only the best "ingredients" are used.

Thanks brother :)
 

aticus

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Matt gave me great info and advice, i Will go for it but my location in europe with customs etc makes it quite more expensive for me.
In crazy parts and maxguitarstore there are similar prewired kits but cant say exact as Martín6string...... Cause Matt used 550CTS..... I dont know if that is same of this or Does difer ...... Im quite ignorant about so Many technical pots and wires

http://www.maxguitarstore.com/produ...son-vintage-es-guitars-drop-in-assembly-copy/

Thanks
 

jamman

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Ok , I’d like to chime in with my 2 cents . I’ve tried all of the above and here’s what I think . 1 personal preference is the 1st. thing needed to choose what type of pot you’re looking for . The CS pots ,imo are not all that good . They are clear sounding open pots, but they still have that “bump”(around 8-10) in volume . they also drop off around 2-2 ½ . If you can deal with that , you’re good to go .

Matt’s 550K pots work very well and are a definite step up . I didn’t try one of his pre-built harnesses as I build my own and save a few $$$. If you use your controls a lot , They will be a big improvement . For me the 550K pots a brighter than I like . That’s something I’ve found out by trying a few different types with different values .
The Crazy Parts TVT pots (500K) re not as bright and work just as well as the 550K pots . Imo , the big difference is their top end . Not as bright . For me , and the tone I want that’s better .

Luxe Caps , I don’t care for. I think they are a little harsh on the top end . More than I care for. But that’s a personal preference thing .
I have found that the Original Bee’s give a somewhat smoother tone at all levels .

If the Original CS harness doesn't sound good for you, swap them out. No 2 are exactly the same sounding . Some sound good while others .....Don't .

Since swapping out a harness on a 335 is a PITA . Choose wisely .
 

JMB1984

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Ok , I&#8217;d like to chime in with my 2 cents . I&#8217;ve tried all of the above and here&#8217;s what I think . 1 personal preference is the 1st. thing needed to choose what type of pot you&#8217;re looking for . The CS pots ,imo are not all that good . They are clear sounding open pots, but they still have that &#8220;bump&#8221;(around 8-10) in volume . they also drop off around 2-2 ½ . If you can deal with that , you&#8217;re good to go .

Matt&#8217;s 550K pots work very well and are a definite step up . I didn&#8217;t try one of his pre-built harnesses as I build my own and save a few $$$. If you use your controls a lot , They will be a big improvement . For me the 550K pots a brighter than I like . That&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve found out by trying a few different types with different values .
The Crazy Parts TVT pots (500K) re not as bright and work just as well as the 550K pots . Imo , the big difference is their top end . Not as bright . For me , and the tone I want that&#8217;s better .

Luxe Caps , I don&#8217;t care for. I think they are a little harsh on the top end . More than I care for. But that&#8217;s a personal preference thing .
I have found that the Original Bee&#8217;s give a somewhat smoother tone at all levels .

If the Original CS harness doesn't sound good for you, swap them out. No 2 are exactly the same sounding . Some sound good while others .....Don't .

Since swapping out a harness on a 335 is a PITA . Choose wisely .

Great advice, particularly the part about choosing wisely. As noted some pots may be too bright etc.

For the OP and going back to my initial post, you still haven't said what exactly you feel your guitar is lacking. The re-sellers can tell you that it will "sound better", but if you haven't described this, how do you know you will make the right choice so that the guitar sounds better to you?
 

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