Wiring experts needed: 58 V wiring question

Airplane

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I have figured this out from actual 58 V photos. i'm pretty sure this is accurate and works. but now, how do i wire the "master" tone pot and from there on to the output? this is for a 58 V replica build.

(green is ground and red is hot/lead. i'm using vintage style braided wire.)

 

Airplane

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got it, thanks. solution was easier than i thought..
 

CB91710

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There is no electrical difference between putting the cap on 2 and output on 1, and putting the cap on 1 and output on 2. It's a variable resistor in series with a capacitor.
But you don't want to put the cap on 3 as in your original drawing... unless you're building a lefty and have knobs that go from 10-0 instead of 0-10 ;)

V-Tone.jpg




NOW....
Another decision needs to be made.
What you have drawn is dependent volume control wiring.
The output to the switch is on the wiper of both pots, so when you are in the middle position, both volume controls act as a master, so both pickups will be at the same level (same as a modern Les Paul)
Reverse the "red" connections on the pot to make them independent... in the middle position, the level on one tone will not impact the output of the other pickup. This will allow you to blend different levels on the middle position.
Say you dial back the neck pickup for a cleaner rhythm tone, and have the bridge on 10 to drive the amp for leads. Independent controls will maintain this difference on the middle position, while dependent controls, the reduced level of the neck will pull the bridge down.

Of course, you can also reverse only one of the two, and that one would act as a master when in the middle.
Gibson has gone back and forth on this, and I believe the original 58s were wired as shown, but modern designs reverse for independent controls.... the opposite of the Les Paul.
 

Airplane

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There is no electrical difference between putting the cap on 2 and output on 1, and putting the cap on 1 and output on 2. It's a variable resistor in series with a capacitor.
But you don't want to put the cap on 3 as in your original drawing... unless you're building a lefty and have knobs that go from 10-0 instead of 0-10 ;)

View attachment 422300



NOW....
Another decision needs to be made.
What you have drawn is dependent volume control wiring.
The output to the switch is on the wiper of both pots, so when you are in the middle position, both volume controls act as a master, so both pickups will be at the same level (same as a modern Les Paul)
Reverse the "red" connections on the pot to make them independent... in the middle position, the level on one tone will not impact the output of the other pickup. This will allow you to blend different levels on the middle position.
Say you dial back the neck pickup for a cleaner rhythm tone, and have the bridge on 10 to drive the amp for leads. Independent controls will maintain this difference on the middle position, while dependent controls, the reduced level of the neck will pull the bridge down.

Of course, you can also reverse only one of the two, and that one would act as a master when in the middle.
Gibson has gone back and forth on this, and I believe the original 58s were wired as shown, but modern designs reverse for independent controls.... the opposite of the Les Paul.
Thank you very much.

I never heard about the master volume thing, Does that mean original Vs had two master volumes? All of the (very few) photos of the wiring show the schematic i have drawn:
 

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CB91710

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Two "master" volumes really is not accurate... Yes, they would both act as masters in the middle position, but each is independent on the bridge or middle position. Same way the Les Paul is wired.
I've found drawings online for the '67 and later models that use this wiring.

These are the two ways to wire the volume/switch interface. Control layout is the modern pattern, but the wiring would apply with the tone moved back.
The only difference is the pickup and output to the switch is reversed on the volume pot.

I honestly don't know which is correct for an authentic '58. It's hard to tell from your image with the tape and harness routing. It does look like the first drawing (Les Paul style) is used.

67+flying+50S+WIRING+HOW+TO+DIAGRAM.jpg

wiringV50sInd.jpg
 

CB91710

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Again, the position of the cap doesn't matter.
Electrically, this: ---| |---/\/\/\/\----
Is the same as this: ---/\/\/\/\----| |----

That is the difference between putting the capacitor between the pot and the switch, as in the drawings, or between the #2 lug and the cover, not grounding any of the tone pot's lugs.
 

charlie chitlins

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Two "master" volumes really is not accurate... Yes, they would both act as masters in the middle position, but each is independent on the bridge or middle position. Same way the Les Paul is wired.
I've found drawings online for the '67 and later models that use this wiring.

These are the two ways to wire the volume/switch interface. Control layout is the modern pattern, but the wiring would apply with the tone moved back.
The only difference is the pickup and output to the switch is reversed on the volume pot.

I honestly don't know which is correct for an authentic '58. It's hard to tell from your image with the tape and harness routing. It does look like the first drawing (Les Paul style) is used.

View attachment 422956
View attachment 422957
I never saw a tone cap with a long enough lead to make it to the switch ;)
 

CB91710

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I never saw a tone cap with a long enough lead to make it to the switch ;)
Ya, not for a Lester or 50's V layout, but the modern V layout it is an option.

Now that I think of it, the leads on my Vitamin-Q .047 "Black Candy" PIO cap probably were long enough for a 50's V layout.
 


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