Why would someone buy a fake GIBSON ?
- Thread starter skysc
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
- Messages
- 42,260
- Reaction score
- 174,711
My late bro back in the 70s had an old Fender black beauty jazz with black box fret markers among several other J's & P's, played the Ibby copy of that particular model for two minutes and bought it. Sold all his Fenders. He said it was the best bass he'd ever played. Dense body. Unreal with Roto strings on it...
martin H
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,019
- Reaction score
- 6,839
My late bro back in the 70s had an old Fender black beauty jazz with black box fret markers among several other J's & P's, played the Ibby copy of that particular model for two minutes and bought it. Sold all his Fenders. He said it was the best bass he'd ever played. Dense body. Unreal with Roto strings on it...
Sounds like the same model I had. Black body, maple neck, black block markers. With Rotosounds on it, it sounded more like Chris Squire than Chris Squire did.
kasu
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,487
- Reaction score
- 1,825
Ill join the "really dont care very much" club. They exist and I dont get very upset by it really. These are so well known by now that I doubt very many get fooled. The higher end replicas are worse when it comes to decieving a buyer, big bucks at stake regarding those. Ive got 10+ gibsies an 1 of these infamous fakes (didnt buy it though, traded it from a friend for a strat copy). Its a good build actually, and I had great fun refinishing and upgrading it. If I ever sell it Ill paint over the logo or something. Until then Ill just enjoy playing it.
Phoenix V
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2013
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 57
Posted this once before.
The Gibson logo is important to a lot of people. There are some for who it isn't but that's no reflection on those to who it is.
The proof is in the illegal Gibson copy trade. Jackson rips offs are ho hum, Fender ripoffs are mildly interesting. BC Rich, no one actually really cares.
Chibsons? Well, they cause a right royal stir. People get really worked up, emotional, defensive, and whether we like it or not... they sell and probably by the truckload. And lets face it, there's a section of the consumer market that already knows its a fake, but they want the headstock with 'Gibson' on it, without having to pay the premium for the genuine headstock with the genuine logo on it.
It's about the branding, what the Gibson name represents, both today and in the history of the guitar and its association with generations past of musicians and influences and style.
The Gibson logo is important to a lot of people. There are some for who it isn't but that's no reflection on those to who it is.
The proof is in the illegal Gibson copy trade. Jackson rips offs are ho hum, Fender ripoffs are mildly interesting. BC Rich, no one actually really cares.
Chibsons? Well, they cause a right royal stir. People get really worked up, emotional, defensive, and whether we like it or not... they sell and probably by the truckload. And lets face it, there's a section of the consumer market that already knows its a fake, but they want the headstock with 'Gibson' on it, without having to pay the premium for the genuine headstock with the genuine logo on it.
It's about the branding, what the Gibson name represents, both today and in the history of the guitar and its association with generations past of musicians and influences and style.
kasu
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,487
- Reaction score
- 1,825
I agree with Phoenix regarding the royal stir. It seems extremely polarized as well. Its quite funny to observe a little from the sideline. In one corner you have the guys with their fakes loudly claiming (often proudly published on YT) that their 250 USD Chibson is every bit as great, or in fact greater, as any legit LP Standard. In the opposite corner we have the dudes who are totally determined that chibsons are, without exception, made of the worst crap on the planet, are totally unusable and must be destroyed or we will all burn in hell.
If one focuses on the guitar itself: The one I have is pretty well made. I made a "Deluxe-project" of mine since I wanted to try some mini hums. It was pretty interesting to strip it of its thick poly finish to see what may hide underneath. To my surprise not so bad. Its a two piece mahogany(african?) back with a 6 piece(!) top of what looks like pine. The wood quality itself is nice and so is the workmanship.
The hardware was cheap, but sure, it worked for a budget type guitar. The neck and fretjob is much better then one could expect, so with some decent hardware its a good player. Fully rigged it weighs 7.7 lbs (presumably unchambered). Built like an epi though rather than a Gibby.
Sound? Well, of course it sounds pretty much like an LP with mini hums. Has a sort of dry woody tone, very clean sounding. Only problem is the logo really but that can be removed if needed...
In spite of this somewhat positive review of my own fake, I wouldnt order one from china though.. its not worth it...most of the hardware will need upgrading...thick poly finish on most of them I would think...high risk(?) of a needed fretjob...and the fake logo... I have checked the chinese sites though and found that you can buy unfinished bodies/necks (witout G-logo) for around 150 bucks and free shipping. That could be fun to try as a low cost project....and totally legit as well.
If one focuses on the guitar itself: The one I have is pretty well made. I made a "Deluxe-project" of mine since I wanted to try some mini hums. It was pretty interesting to strip it of its thick poly finish to see what may hide underneath. To my surprise not so bad. Its a two piece mahogany(african?) back with a 6 piece(!) top of what looks like pine. The wood quality itself is nice and so is the workmanship.
The hardware was cheap, but sure, it worked for a budget type guitar. The neck and fretjob is much better then one could expect, so with some decent hardware its a good player. Fully rigged it weighs 7.7 lbs (presumably unchambered). Built like an epi though rather than a Gibby.
Sound? Well, of course it sounds pretty much like an LP with mini hums. Has a sort of dry woody tone, very clean sounding. Only problem is the logo really but that can be removed if needed...
In spite of this somewhat positive review of my own fake, I wouldnt order one from china though.. its not worth it...most of the hardware will need upgrading...thick poly finish on most of them I would think...high risk(?) of a needed fretjob...and the fake logo... I have checked the chinese sites though and found that you can buy unfinished bodies/necks (witout G-logo) for around 150 bucks and free shipping. That could be fun to try as a low cost project....and totally legit as well.
Perhaps, I could put my .02 on this. I own a legit, 1993 Les Paul Studio. I also have a copy LP Custom. For the purpose of this discussion, let's leave the logo/name issue out of it. I agree that is the biggest part of what is wrong with these copies. Blank headstock is a step in right direction, but I don't think it is legal either.
There are many reasons people would want to buy a copy. Firstly, they think it will look real enough to be considered a legit guitar and make them look like a better guitarist. Sure, Joe Bonamassa could play a Rondo and no one would think any less, but the truth is cheap guitars carry a stigma...
Secondly, enthusiasts have some expensive gear. Do you really wanna take your vintage LP to the local dive bar? Somebody swipes your copy? Oh well.
Thirdly, the Chinese guitars are no where near as bad as you may think. No, they will never be better or as good as a Gibson. Good ones are better than Epis. Bad ones are firewood. Knowing the difference is key.
Fourthly, it allows for total customization. You can get any color, any style for about $300 as opposed to buying a $300 Epi in a color you don't want and paying $300+ for a paint job or diy and screwing it up. Many people will order these copies to their specs, sure, it might not turn out like they hoped, but probably better than their own diy job.
None of these reasons are an excuse to violate copyright laws, but drop the blatent name copying, then we go from counterfeit to copy. Then, we don't need this discussion, because there's no interest in the product. People want brand recognition, even if the brand isn't the brand....which is the problem.
Gibson has dropped fret binding "nibs" on all models except for LP Classic which seems like an odd move. Also, their budget models, specifically, the MM models and SG/LPJ models are very budget-friendly and geared towards fighting off low priced Competitors. I really think Gibson has done a better job at price-pointing thier products. Sure a LP Custom still runs a pretty penny, but they seem to be trying to give people some more bang for their buck on some of these newer models. I would like to see a budget model with body binding.
There are many reasons people would want to buy a copy. Firstly, they think it will look real enough to be considered a legit guitar and make them look like a better guitarist. Sure, Joe Bonamassa could play a Rondo and no one would think any less, but the truth is cheap guitars carry a stigma...
Secondly, enthusiasts have some expensive gear. Do you really wanna take your vintage LP to the local dive bar? Somebody swipes your copy? Oh well.
Thirdly, the Chinese guitars are no where near as bad as you may think. No, they will never be better or as good as a Gibson. Good ones are better than Epis. Bad ones are firewood. Knowing the difference is key.
Fourthly, it allows for total customization. You can get any color, any style for about $300 as opposed to buying a $300 Epi in a color you don't want and paying $300+ for a paint job or diy and screwing it up. Many people will order these copies to their specs, sure, it might not turn out like they hoped, but probably better than their own diy job.
None of these reasons are an excuse to violate copyright laws, but drop the blatent name copying, then we go from counterfeit to copy. Then, we don't need this discussion, because there's no interest in the product. People want brand recognition, even if the brand isn't the brand....which is the problem.
Gibson has dropped fret binding "nibs" on all models except for LP Classic which seems like an odd move. Also, their budget models, specifically, the MM models and SG/LPJ models are very budget-friendly and geared towards fighting off low priced Competitors. I really think Gibson has done a better job at price-pointing thier products. Sure a LP Custom still runs a pretty penny, but they seem to be trying to give people some more bang for their buck on some of these newer models. I would like to see a budget model with body binding.
HRC
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
- Messages
- 7,389
- Reaction score
- 6,750
The 2014 Traditional still had nibs.
The Outlaw
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2011
- Messages
- 792
- Reaction score
- 282
i've thought about buying some a couple of times to hang on the walls but i've always wussed out at the last second. i cant afford to waste a couple hundred for a guitar that can only hang on the wall when for a little more i can buy some sweet fender fsr guitars that not only look great hanging on the wall but i can actually play em without feeling like a DB. i'd love to have a silverburst custom, slash afd, joe perry boneyard, and a few others hanging on the walls but im too poor to buy the real versions and too poor to waste the money on fakes.
Fracture
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2008
- Messages
- 12,166
- Reaction score
- 18,733
Didn't buy mine, I wound up with one.
An eBay auction for a 3 p/u Custom for $2k.
Seller stalled for about 10 days after the auction (which had stock pictures)
and then sent pics of the counterfeit.
He shipped the offending guitar in a new Gator case, I secured the necessary documentation
from Gibson, filed the claim, etc.
eBay provided me with the return ship label and upon receipt my payment was supposed
to be refunded.
Seller refused the delivery 3x, even returning the carton to UPS after it was left on his porch.
Somehow the guitar made it from PA to Palo Alto(?) and I was eventually credited.
About 2 weeks later, the guitar mysteriously appeared on my front porch.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/70520-have-laugh-me-really.html
An eBay auction for a 3 p/u Custom for $2k.
Seller stalled for about 10 days after the auction (which had stock pictures)
and then sent pics of the counterfeit.
He shipped the offending guitar in a new Gator case, I secured the necessary documentation
from Gibson, filed the claim, etc.
eBay provided me with the return ship label and upon receipt my payment was supposed
to be refunded.
Seller refused the delivery 3x, even returning the carton to UPS after it was left on his porch.
Somehow the guitar made it from PA to Palo Alto(?) and I was eventually credited.
About 2 weeks later, the guitar mysteriously appeared on my front porch.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/70520-have-laugh-me-really.html
The Outlaw
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2011
- Messages
- 792
- Reaction score
- 282
i'd have gladly hung that frampton fake on the wall lol. feel free to carve "fake" on the back of the headstock and donate it to the "Decorations for Outlaw" foundation 
she_done_too_much
Junior Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 1
I finally stopped lurking -- I think I can offer a different perspective here.
For the past year I've been living in China for work, and there's a good possibility I'll be here for another year yet. Real Gibsons don't exist in my city. I've been considering a fake one mainly because I'm homesick and I miss my genuine Gibsons back home. Yeah, it's not going to be as good as the real thing, but neither are the fake jeans I'm wearing or the fake Jim Beam I'm drinking. But over here it's basically go fake or go home.
Why buy a fake when I can (probably) buy a (probably) genuine Ibanez or what have you? I don't know. It's kind of like buying a plastic Statue of Liberty keychain or a little snowglobe with the Golden Gate Bridge inside it.
Granted, this is an unusual circumstance and doesn't really answer the original poster's question. I would never buy a fake if I had a choice in the matter. The local Chinese guys who play in the bars around here feel the same way, but sometimes you have to make do with what's available.
I worked extremely hard to buy the Gibsons that I already own, and I don't want to risk losing them by having them sent to the middle of BFE (where they'll probably just be stolen by crooked customs officials anyway), so part of me just wants to lay a few bills down on a fake one and pretend for a while.
For the past year I've been living in China for work, and there's a good possibility I'll be here for another year yet. Real Gibsons don't exist in my city. I've been considering a fake one mainly because I'm homesick and I miss my genuine Gibsons back home. Yeah, it's not going to be as good as the real thing, but neither are the fake jeans I'm wearing or the fake Jim Beam I'm drinking. But over here it's basically go fake or go home.
Why buy a fake when I can (probably) buy a (probably) genuine Ibanez or what have you? I don't know. It's kind of like buying a plastic Statue of Liberty keychain or a little snowglobe with the Golden Gate Bridge inside it.
Granted, this is an unusual circumstance and doesn't really answer the original poster's question. I would never buy a fake if I had a choice in the matter. The local Chinese guys who play in the bars around here feel the same way, but sometimes you have to make do with what's available.
I worked extremely hard to buy the Gibsons that I already own, and I don't want to risk losing them by having them sent to the middle of BFE (where they'll probably just be stolen by crooked customs officials anyway), so part of me just wants to lay a few bills down on a fake one and pretend for a while.
