Why shouln't i buy a chinese made amp?

EtriX

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I do believe though that guitars and amps is a detail business and detail businesses seldom affect the overall economy. Unless everybody buys around 5-10 guitars/amps a year. Sure the argument that the more domestic you buy the more jobs stay at home. But there is also a certain luxury inherited in that. I for an example can't buy American when it comes to instruments. It's just way over my budget. I will probably buy 2 gibsons and 2 fenders when I get a job. But right now it's simply impossible. But then of course. What I buy can't affect the economy of my home country since we don't have any own great instrument industry.
What I'm trying to say is that it's fine to want to help your country but you might also need some perspective. Not everyone can only buy American, or in my case only buy Swedish. I don't buy stuff to support anyone I buy the best I can get with the money I have. unfortunately most of that is now made in china, korea or vietnam.
 

Emiel

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Globalisation... what else can you properly say. Even if you buy an American amp, it won't be 100% American. My Orange is 'Made In England' but features 'Made in China' Celestion speakers. Is Celestion a Chinese company? Vox is made in China, does that mean it's Chinese? BMW builds cars in America, are they American? FIAT build cars in Poland, Ford in Belgium, Mitsubishi in the Netherlands. The list goes on and on.

What do I mean with this? The goal of every kapitalist company is to create max profit. So companies look for the best bets and settle in those countries where work is cheap. And yes, thousands of American companies have factories in China or let China factories build their products. A lot of products which say 'Made in USA' are not (or not entirely) build in America, but in China, Vietnam, Korea or in Europe etc. So you Americans gain from China. Trust me, there are more pro's than con's. Having factories in China gives salary to a lot of local people who eventually... will buy American products and thus invest indirectly in America.

The USA didn't become 'big' on it's own. No, if a country becomes wealthy thats due to other countries. America got big due trade with... Europe, Japan... and yes China. It's a circle reasoning if you know what I mean. That argument of 'Chinese products damage the American market' is nothing but nonsense. America does gain from China and from other countries. And trust me, they gain a lot more than they lose. In fact, if the US government would say 'we don't buy Chinese goods' than properly the whole US economy will be dead. Trade with countries like China isn't bad...
 

Splattle101

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Allow me to disagree with you, Brett.... and I assure you that it's not personal, but I think that kind of thinking is what got us into this mess.

That kind of "If you don't go to college and get a deskjob, you'll be a loser your entire life" mentality is what flooded the market with middle-management types who have been laid off by the 100's of 1,000's over the last 15 years or so. Now they have no real skills other than "managing" others who KNOW what their job entails.

When society looks down at those who actually produce something of value and accepts the mentality that if you get your hands dirty, you're a loser and unworthy of any empathy, we now have an over-abundance of bankers, insurance salesman, and Wall Street types who seem to have gamed the system. Add to that the 1000's of graduated students with degrees in Women's Studies, Art, Literature, Criminal Justice, Ethnic Studies, and other Liberal Arts who have few options for a decent income from their degree, yet owe 100K+ in Student Loans, and it's not hard to see that an "education" for educations sake does not always guarantee anything.



Agreed, on a personal level. However, that doesn't bring money INTO the country. You need manufacturing for that.
I agree with most of this. Not just in the US, but in the west in general, we are beginning to lose a society-wide understanding of how our countries work. Not just politically, but physically. As we've moved away from manufacturing and heavy industry, we have simultaneously moved in the direction of management as a vocation. Ever noticed the number of degrees you can get in 'business' now? These all boil down to teaching various highly specialized slices of 'management'. This is a style of management thinking that holds that middle management is wasteful, and that you don't need the cadres of people who began on the shop floor and became middle managers. These wasteful people understand the breadth of the business because they've worked in many different parts of it as junior workers. They also understand the business at the level of technical detail because they actually used to do it themselves.

The post 1970s management model, pushed by the Harvard Business School and the London School of Economics, is that you do away with these middle managers and get yourself a finance specialist, and a marketing specialist, and a logistics specialist, etc. These people are generic specialists, in that they know NOTHING about your business, but they understand their particular niche in general. So they apply their general principles of logistics, human resource development, finance or whatever to your business. They reduce the number of layers of management between the shop floor and the executive so it must be more efficient.

...except that these specialists (who know nothing) are highly mobile, so you are forever training them in the particular requirements of YOUR business. And after a few years you find that your executive is almost completely disconnected from the shop floor, even though there are less layers of management in between. And you notice that your business is being run out of the finance department, because that is the only thing that all businesses have in common, so it's common thread in all business courses because it is the MOST GENERIC. No more colours, only a handful of shades of grey.

Looking around our universities here, I am struck by the fact that our local Aussie students are taking business degrees of some sort, while the foreign students come here and study engineering, materials sciences, physics, medicine, bio-chemistry and so on. Many of the foreign students come from China and India. They are becoming our technical experts. For example, we have a guy who studied in NSW who invented a way to get the efficiency of solar cells up from the late 1980s standard of 12-14% up to around 40%, using low-grade silicone (just for reference and comparison, the best you get out of any steam cycle is about 35-40%: the rest of that energy goes up the cooling tower). Because he did it as an undergraduate he doesn't own the research and he can't use it himself commercially. But the university hasn't commercialized it, and the guy himself has gone back to China and is now one of the richest men in the world selling other solar-related technology he has developed since. These people will do as Kruschev threatened, and bury us. They'll bury us because we are too fuckin' lazy to do the hard yards and understand how shit actually works, and then put that knowledge to use. We'd rather do a business degree.

To get a feel for what this means for us all at the visceral level, think about how many people could fix your TV if it went on the blink. I would wager that most us could count the competent repairers they know on the fingers of one hand. How many of us on here understand how a valve works in one of our amps? I'd bet it's less than half.

On the subject of the thread, I have very little sympathy for Americans complaining about unfair trade practices. Sorry, that's just how it is. Your farmers are very heavily subsidized, just like the fuckin' Europeans. Manufacturing in the US has traditionally been heavily protected, and I would be unsurprised if you didn't enter a new era of protectionism now with your economy in the toilet. If you don't like Chinese, then by all means don't buy it. They're your dollars to do with as you please. But don't blame the Chinese for the recession: they've been propping up your dollar for over a decade by buying your bonds. Which allowed you to afford to buy Chinese stuff...and round we go.
 

Torren61

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Wow. I think that was the best written retort I've ever read. I honestly don't think I can disagree with anything you wrote. I hope that somebody else reads that all the way through because a LOT of what I was trying to say is in there. I just don't have your eloquence.

In order to bring manufacturing back to your own countries (not just the US), you're going to have to support the existing manufacturing from your countries. If you create the need to build at home, business will fill it. Stop buying cheap junk. Save until you can afford to buy better or buy used.

As for the Americans here: have you read what our friends from outside our borders have written? They're telling us that our country is on the decline and they're right. Some are gloating about it and some are just being informative and factual. Don't get mad at either of them because it's simply the truth. The power to change things is in your hands and in your wallet. If you want this country to stay great then stop sending your money to China.

Just make the effort to look at the label. You might be surprised to see that there IS actually an American made equivalant to what you're trying to buy. You don't have to feel guilty if everything in your house is not made in the USA but just TRY to buy American made or Australian made or Canadian or made anywhere but China.

Be American, Buy American.
 

Splattle101

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Glad we can have a civil discussion, mate. :thumb:

cheers,
Splat
 

Torren61

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You'd be surprised to see how many Aussie shirts I own...
 

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