Why Shouldn't I Buy A Chinese Made Guitar?

The_Sentry

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For the record, I was agreeing with you, Sentry. My point was simply to underscore how far things have already gone. From my perspective, the horse is out of the barn. If you close the door she won't be able to get back in.

Oh, that's true enough. In the greater scheme of things this has a lot more to do with global economics vs. one company doing it....

You're right..how do we get away from it?

I dunno. I guess I can't really say much about the G-20 which comprises the lion's share of global economic power....but as far as China goes...well, the only thing I think they really need to address is....environmental concerns. Big time. (And yes...this would probably slow down their manufacturing dramatically.)
 

nicolasrivera

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It all should star home, manufacturing in USA is way too expensive and the government has not made any successful efforts to lower the cost, so many company's need to seek elsewhere to keep competitive in the market.

This has helped a lot of 3rd world countries generate lots of jobs and better the life of a rather poor communities that with out the outsourcing trend will have never had the chance to own a tv. The American USA made product still has a deep impact as a reference of high quality products, but we are in the middle of a manufacturing war that is far from over.
 

bryvincent

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most people cite the high labor wages(compared to the far east) in america as the reason why american products are expensive. though it is true to a point but its only a small part of the reason. for me, i put the blame to the executives or CEOs that are just too greedy. i'ved read on the newspaper a few years ago that if the minimum wage increased at the same rate as an average CEO, the minimum wage today would be $20/hr!!!
 

kernelofwisdom

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most people cite the high labor wages(compared to the far east) in america as the reason why american products are expensive. though it is true to a point but its only a small part of the reason. for me, i put the blame to the executives or CEOs that are just too greedy. i'ved read on the newspaper a few years ago that if the minimum wage increased at the same rate as an average CEO, the minimum wage today would be $20/hr!!!

It's true executive compensation ballooned in certain areas, but that doesn't change the core point. Wages and regulatory costs in China (and some other countries) are so much lower than in the US it is impossible to compete even at minimum wage on many products, even though you wouldn't get the labor you need at minimum wage.

When Nafta hit we figured the textile industry would move to Mexico, but at roughly the same time Eastern countries charged harder into the mix and it went to China and Pakistan. In other words, even Mexican labor rates couldn't compete with Asia, etc. The bottom line is that factories cost only a small fraction to operate in China of what they would cost in the US.

We can fire all the CEO's we want (and I'd like to see a lot fired too) and get rid of all the unions we want and none of that will keep the Chinese from being much lower cost at manufacturing than we are. We're not going to win a cost war under the current rules or economics.
 

JPaul

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Global Competitiveness Report

The Global Competitiveness Report is a yearly report published by the World Economic Forum. The first report was released in 1979. The 2008-2009 report covers 134 major and emerging economies, up from 131 considered in the 2007-2008 report. The geographic coverage for 2008 included four additional countries, Brunei Darussalam, Ivory Coast, Ghana and Malawi, but excluded Uzbekistan due to lack of survey data. The United States continues as the most competitive economy in the world, despite the financial crisis that began in 2007.

The report "assesses the ability of countries to provide high levels of prosperity to their citizens. This in turn depends on how productively a country uses available resources. Therefore, the Global Competitiveness Index measures the set of institutions, policies, and factors that set the sustainable current and medium-term levels of economic prosperity."

2008-2009 Rankings

The following are the top 30 countries in the 2008-2009 Report.

1. United States 5.74
2. Switzerland 5.61
3. Denmark 5.58
4. Sweden 5.53
5. Singapore 5.53
6. Finland 5.50
7. Germany 5.46
8. Netherlands 5.41
9. Japan 5.38
10. Canada 5.37



11. Hong Kong SAR 5.33
12. United Kingdom 5.30
13. South Korea 5.28
14. Austria 5.23
15. Norway 5.22
16. France 5.22
17. Taiwan 5.22
18. Australia 5.20
19. Belgium 5.14
20. Iceland 5.05



21. Malaysia 5.04
22. Ireland 4.99
23. Israel 4.97
24. New Zealand 4.93
25. Luxembourg 4.85
26. Qatar 4.83
27. Saudi Arabia 4.72
28. Chile 4.72
29. Spain 4.72
30. China 4.70

Global Competitiveness Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

gui524

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Your post is kind of dumb ... do you think that just because someone is Chinese they want to cheat you and take over the world ?? Can't there be honest people working in factories ?? People need to survive, poor people can't choose in which job to apply for !! All chinese guitars are stealing the economy of the USA ?? So we shouldn't buy Schecters, Epiphones, etc just because they are made in China ??
 

The Dali

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most people cite the high labor wages(compared to the far east) in america as the reason why american products are expensive. though it is true to a point but its only a small part of the reason. for me, i put the blame to the executives or CEOs that are just too greedy. i'ved read on the newspaper a few years ago that if the minimum wage increased at the same rate as an average CEO, the minimum wage today would be $20/hr!!!


I'm not sure I really want to get involved with this thread... but I think you have to keep in mind that while corporate greed is alive and well, there are other issues that drive the cost of USA manufacturing. The minimum wage isn't one of them. Unions and environmental/governmental regulations are more on target.

Hmmm... Honda, Nissan, and Toyota manufacture their cars in the USA, sell their cars for the same price (or less) than USA companies and are doing (relatively) fine... USA car companies are declaring bankruptcy and joining forces with foriegn companies to stay afloat. Why? Some of it is terrible management, but some of it is also POOR POOR labor contracts from years ago that resulted in managment's inability to nimbly manage their business.

In addition, the USA has some of the stricted emmission standards in the world. China can make products at .00003 of a cent because they can dump their pollutants in a local river with no issues.

I agree - we should be supporting developed and responsible nations - not just the USA but nations that value their citizens and their environment. I gladly pay more for materials manufactured in developed nations and avoid the 2nd and 3rd world countries whenever possible. Unfortunately, that is becoming harder and harder to do given that almost anything you use on a regular basis is manufactured in china or the far east.

Torrent - I'm not sure what you thought would happen with this thread. This is a forum for discussion - hence the title "forum". To post on your soapbox and not expect people to respond in a nagetive fashion is juvenile. Of course people are going to disagree, especially when you begin calling people names and making fun of their home country. While I agree with the GENERAL premise of your statement, you certainly didn't pose it in a way to gain mass appeal.
 

blakem

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I have a 2008 Epiphone Slash limited edition tobbaco burst model Les Paul, professionally set up and the guitar plays like a dream.. but the chinese thing always gets to me...I hate that it is Chinese.. it's a quality instrument.. but I wish it was made here in the U.S., not that I have anything against the Chinese, besides there Government, they seem like incredible people with pride and honor.. yet I rather support people here at home..this is where I live.. I need to think about that... but it is a hell of a nice guitar!
 

George "M"

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Great thread. So many "why???"
First - I have to apologize for my English, it's not my mother tongue, so, forgive, etc.
OK, let's start from history.
In June 1989 chinese students demonstrated on Tyananmen Square in Beijing, demanding more democracy. At that time 90% of chinese ate grass, literally. Dend sent troops, 2300 or so unarmed students were killed. Still Chinese Gov't defends it's decision to spill out the blood of innocent, unarmed students. But Deng perfectly understood - China is on the edge of much bigger riot, and he decided to open the country to western corporations, and to give chinese possibility to have their own businesses. So, we, westerners, flooded Communists with billions of dollars investments, built factories there, using cheap chinese labor, and cheap rent of land and facilities. So, our greed made China strong. Yes, we gave millions of jobs to poor chinese people, but 75% of monetary injection went to Gov't. By the way, production cost of the pair of Nike shoes in China is... 97 cents. You buy it for $120.
So, now, China is one of the wealthiest countries in the World, despite on fact that 82% of chinese still live in horrible poverty, and only east coastal cities - Beijing, Dalian, Qingdao, Shanghai, Ningbo, Guangzhou and Shenzhen- have more or less civilized life. What's their plans? To predict it, you have to know chinese mentality. They have absolutely different understanding of time. We think a few years ahead, they think hundreds years ahead. Somebody here said - what, China wants to take World over? The answer is - YES. They already doing it, for now - financially. Next step - militarily. Otherwise - what for such a crazy spending on military modernization? Who threatening China? Taiwan? No. China will take Taiwan over without shooting very soon, unfortunately. And we will eat it. So, why Chinese spend billions for new weaponry, and so in hurry to send people on Moon? Go figure. "Wonderful" chinese people absolutely determined to be leading nation , they brag that chinese are smartiest people in the World, and and sooner or later China will rule the World.
When I asked, why, if they're so smart and talented, not even one World famous chinese brand exist, they laugh in my face- why need to invent something, if we can steal??? Just recently chinese students demanded to make law, legitimazing exams cheating. They said - it's so common, that it should be legal. Corruption, cheating is in chinese blood. It's runs there for thousands of years. Moral values just don't exist there, the only value there is - money. Youngsters don't think about freedom, they think how to get more money. Nobody will go on Tyananmen Square to protest. Communists bought a whole generation. As I said - no any moral values there. Why there's so big population? Ask chinese, and they'll tell you- because we love children. Bull!!! They made as many kids as possible (preferrably boys) to suck their money at old age, because there's no any social security system exist, and just recently Gov't started to pay microscopic pensions to people. So, kids money is the only way to survive for elderly chinese. By the way, in remote provinces, they still kill newborns, if its a girl. Yes, it's illegal, but who cares... no laws there.
So, will we have big War with China? 100%. No doubt about it. One day their ambitions has to be stopped. A few previous White House owners licked chinese butts for cheap products and buying our debts so intensively, that China really feel they're Kings of the World.
Now, about chinese guitars. 30 years ago Japan started to make guitars. Horrible axes. Then they came to USA, paid good money for knowledge, and now japanese guitars are quite respectable instruments. Then Korea went same way. Chinese are very, very greedy, they don't want to pay. I talked to the owner of one of the biggest guitar factories in China, that make guitars for 14 years, and he tried to convince me, that the top of acoustic guitar must be thinner in the bridge area, and thicker on the edges!!!!!!! Can you imagine the quality of his guitars??? They have no any slightest idea, how to make guitars, they just copy our and japanese brands, avoiding complicated issies, simpify everything possible to earn more for less. They build guitars same way they build furniture. I spent 8 (EIGHT) years (in and out) in China to find the factory, that can make decent quality guitars!!! I speak decent chinese, I know chinese from A to Z, and I can assure you - even if you'll buy chinese made guitar for less bucks - you'll need a lot of money to modity it and make it payable. Nowadays situation changes eventually. Last year 28 guitar factories went out of business. So, some of owners started to understand, that era of cheap quality guitars ended. Now they trying to improve quality. I know 2 factories, who started to use (Oh, my God...) nitrocellulose lacquer!!! And one factory even made Gibson style plastic ends of the frets!!! WOW!!! So, in a few years, probably, we'll see improved quality of chinese guitars. I don't want to upset any of chinese guitars owners, you love it- God bless, I'm just talking from the point of view of professional luthier. And, no, I'm not a racist, my girl/friend is Asian, and I have nothing against chinese people, it's not their fault, what commis did with them. Can we stop buying chinese goods and guitars? No. Not until Gibson and Fender will charge reasonable prices for Les Pauls and Strats.
They're way overpriced, IMO. Can we change it? Sure we can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
 

Torren61

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You may have a point. I might have presented my opinions and the facts contained in the links I provided in a more palatable manner.

I stand by my opinions and the facts I have offered in those links. If you read the thread through, you'll see where I offered an apology to anyone I may have offended.

However, if any individual disagrees with anything I've said and decides to step out of the boundaries of civilized debate then they will get exactly what they are asking for.
 

Jason

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You may have a point. I might have presented my opinions and the facts contained in the links I provided in a more palatable manner.

I stand by my opinions and the facts I have offered in those links. If you read the thread through, you'll see where I offered an apology to anyone I may have offended.

However, if any individual disagrees with anything I've said and decides to step out of the boundaries of civilized debate then they will get exactly what they are asking for.

irony6.jpg
 

Torren61

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Jason, I asked you to stay out of my posts because I just don't like you. You are not clever and I've never seen a post from you that required more than an elementary school education to compose. So you post this? Do you even understand what the word "irony" even means? I find that ironic.
 

Jason

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The irony is in your accusations of OTHERS getting nasty. You must be a very angry and bitter man... I have absolutely no idea how my owning a Chinese amplifier pissed you off to the point of flipping out... say whatever you want about me, but I can at least say I've tried to stay light-hearted while you shit your pants and scream.
 

George "M"

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Guys, guys... let's respect each other's opinions and stay civilized, pliiizzz...
 

zplapplap

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Jason, I asked you to stay out of my posts because I just don't like you. You are not clever and I've never seen a post from you that required more than an elementary school education to compose. So you post this? Do you even understand what the word "irony" even means? I find that ironic.

You can utilize the ignore feature. I haven't done it, but it shouldn't be too difficult. You might have better luck doing that than trying to dictate who's not allowed to post in your threads.
 

River

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You can utilize the ignore feature. I haven't done it, but it shouldn't be too difficult. You might have better luck doing that than trying to dictate who's not allowed to post in your threads.
It works pretty well until someone quotes your ignored user or curiosity gets the better of you, which it usually does.

It is not big enough of a hammer. Which is good for my psycho-social development. :)
 

gui524

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Jason, I asked you to stay out of my posts because I just don't like you. You are not clever and I've never seen a post from you that required more than an elementary school education to compose. So you post this? Do you even understand what the word "irony" even means? I find that ironic.

You were the one that started talking shit and it looks you still are ...
 

NewtoyLPVM

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For the record: I buy American whenever I can. I look at where something is made before I buy it and often I don't buy it if it's not made in the USA. My second tier is Australia, Europe, Canada and not in any particular order. I have heaps of Australian made shirts and socks etc. My third tier is South America, Central America and Mexico. My fourth tier is Middle East and then Asia. Japan is the one country that zigs and zags between tiers in my little world.

I am not racist nor am I xenophobic. I consider myself economically aware and concerned.

I'm concerned for myself, my boys, my brothers, my cousins and my neighbors. If you're not concerned then I don't know if anyone can reach you.

I'm trying to tell you what's happening to your country. If you don't care then stay out of my threads.

I guess you are not racist because your first tier choices are mostly anglo saxon countries. I buy American whenever available. But damn, when I bought my last pair of Cartharts and looked at the label and it read: "Heche en Mexico", WTF, even my favorite American Jeans are now made in Mexico.

From your other posts: What's is made in Australia that is better than the same item that is made in China? Looks like you consider every products made in Anglo Saxon countries superior than anything made in China.

Do you know what we have in the U.S. that they do not have in China? Rednecks with shitty and racist attitude like yours.
 

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