Why pay such outrageous prices for beat up replicas of 58-60 Les Pauls?

mjross

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My black guitars *snicker*

full
Nice looking grouping!

Here‘s a grouping of black guitars I had in rotation a few weeks ago! Black guitars hold a special place in my heart.

BB King Lucille, ”57” BB Triple Pickup Reissue, Fender Steve Lukather Custom Mod

1663630416230.jpeg
 
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golfnut

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Opinion only! They may not be a fool, they just may have the money to spend, people need to understand that! There are people that plan and save there money for may years to purchase nice things. They are not fools Sir!
So true and thats my story. When I was young, so many times I would want what I want and want it "right now", many times I'd get my self in a financial bind. Thats what being a fool is. Just before the pandemic hit I said enough of living like that I paid off all my debts one at a time, cars everything. The only thing I have left now is my mortgage that I'm paying double monthly payments and yearly lump sum payments, which is what my mortgage terms allow. That sucker will be paid in just a few years. Just in the past 2 years I've put $54,000 on the principal. And this is why I don't have an R9 just yet. I've been saving my extra disposable income for a year. I should be in good shape to buy a new R9 by next February or March all cash. Of course when the time comes that I have enough to buy a new one I am still going to see if I can get a decent used deal if there are any to be had. I have sacrificed every other pleasure in life (carribean trips, eating out, etc) to get to this place. There are times when I'm tempted to take out a loan or get it from the store on payments but over the past few years I've seen how much money I've saved not paying interest on things. I've got my standard 50 to keep me company until its the right time.
 
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mjross

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So true and thats my story. When I was young, so many times I would want what I want and want it "right now", many times I'd get my self in a financial bind. Thats what being a fool is. Just before the pandemic hit I said enough of living like that I paid off all my debts one at a time, cars everything. The only thing I have left now is my mortgage that I'm paying double monthly payments and yearly lump sum payments, which is what my mortgage terms allow. That sucker will be paid in just a few years. Just in the past 2 years I've put $54,000 on the principal. And this is why I don't have an R9 just yet. I've been saving my extra disposable income for a year. I should be in good shape to buy a new R9 by next February or March all cash. Of course when the time comes that I have enough to buy a new one I am still going to see if I can get a decent used deal if there are any to be had. I have sacrificed every other pleasure in life (carribean trips, eating out, etc) to get to this place. There are times when I'm tempted to take out a loan or get it from the store on payments but over the past few years I've seen how much money I've saved not paying interest on things. I've got my standard 50 to keep my company until its the right time.
Good for you Sir, glad to hear you have a plan and it’s working! I have so many friends my age (70) and musicians that had no plan. They are seeing the affect of that now, in a word, hard times. I REALLY feel for them and try to do what I can to help. And that Standard is a great guitar!
 

DmacD

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I realize I'm risking backlash here, but hear me out. I am genuinely curious as to why so many folks are paying 3,4 and 5 times or more than the price of a good used or new Les Paul to buy a modern built, intentionally beat up Murphy Lab "aged" replica R8/9/0. I mean; $7500 for an "Ultra Light Aged," $8500 for a "Light Aged," $9700 for a "heavy aged," and $11,400 for an Ultra Heavy Aged R9... Really? Seriously? Why?
I understand the desire for an original, heavily played, well aged, nice patina, with documented history, etc. authentic 1959 Holy Grail Les Paul rests deep in most of our hearts and the asking prices are well out of our range. But these Murphy things aren't real. No matter how close they get, they aren't real 59s. I know, I know, the hide glue, the long neck tenon, narrow frets etc, etc. It might look or feel the part but the fact remains they aren't. But c'mon, $11,400 could buy me another 5 new 50's Standards or half a dozen used gems of LP goodiness. I guess I come from the school of buy it new and play/age/wear/patina/beat it up yourself. Please explain the rest to me I'm clearly not getting. I genuinely want to know. Thanks!
Marketing and it needs no further answer. But if you want to get to it.
 

Stolen#961253

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I realize I'm risking backlash here, but hear me out. I am genuinely curious as to why so many folks are paying 3,4 and 5 times or more than the price of a good used or new Les Paul to buy a modern built, intentionally beat up Murphy Lab "aged" replica R8/9/0. I mean; $7500 for an "Ultra Light Aged," $8500 for a "Light Aged," $9700 for a "heavy aged," and $11,400 for an Ultra Heavy Aged R9... Really? Seriously? Why?
I understand the desire for an original, heavily played, well aged, nice patina, with documented history, etc. authentic 1959 Holy Grail Les Paul rests deep in most of our hearts and the asking prices are well out of our range. But these Murphy things aren't real. No matter how close they get, they aren't real 59s. I know, I know, the hide glue, the long neck tenon, narrow frets etc, etc. It might look or feel the part but the fact remains they aren't. But c'mon, $11,400 could buy me another 5 new 50's Standards or half a dozen used gems of LP goodiness. I guess I come from the school of buy it new and play/age/wear/patina/beat it up yourself. Please explain the rest to me I'm clearly not getting. I genuinely want to know. Thanks!
It’s none of my business…
 

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InTheEvening

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My Murphy lab unltra light relic is not really beat up like some CS Fenders, I’ve played VOS, the shiny ones and Murphy Labs and will say the Murphy labs simply sound and play better
I was actually curious to know this. Are the Murphy Labs in general better in terms of tone and playability than the regular VOS historics? Or is it just a difference in relicing?
 

darkvoice

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There are several companies/craftsman which offer to age your guitars.

I recently watched a video where someone bought a perfect R9 (that's a 1959 reissues from Gibson) and took it to one of these places where guitars are aged. The guitar was stripped of it's finish and literally taken apart (to the point where binding and fretboard were removed), then re-assembled using special glue and finishes, and finally aged/reliced.

So, the person spent $6,000 to purchase the R9 and close to that to age it. $11-12K!!! Oh, and it can't be a Standard or Classic, it has to be a true re-issue, otherwise it would not be valued and cherished the same!!!! It blew up my mind!!!

I don't get it, but as someone said here - we are not the market. Just accept the fact that it's popular among certain collectors.
 

darkvoice

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That would be fake indeed. And you can bet safely that no professional, never mind a star, who can afford to buy such a true aged instrument would say he's been playing it all his life.
Stars and pro players buy artificially aged guitars from various companies which offer such service. The question is why? When people see them play such guitars, I would say that some assume that all wear and tear and aging on the guitar was from playing, would you agree?
 

2old2rock

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Are people buying these to play, or to collect? Will the pre-aged replicas be worth as much as a naturally aged instrument in 30+ years? How will the pre-aged replica age over that time period, and will it look ridiculous next to a naturally-aged example? Many things can affect the value of an instrument, it's value as collectible art is probably higher than its value as a tool after so many years, but there are so many factors that determine that. My criteria may be different than yours, but any object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
 

golfnut

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Stars and pro players buy artificially aged guitars from various companies which offer such service. The question is why? When people see them play such guitars, I would say that some assume that all wear and tear and aging on the guitar was from playing, would you agree?
I don't agree. I would say because it gives them the same worn in feel that their real vintage guitars have. They don't want to bring their vintage guitars on the road. If I toured I'd have a couple of those heavy relics simply because of how nice they feel. Personally I don't like the look of the heavy relic but they feel nice and there is absolutely no stress on how many bumps and bruises they get on the road.
 

darkvoice

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I don't agree. I would say because it gives them the same worn in feel that their real vintage guitars have. They don't want to bring their vintage guitars on the road. If I toured I'd have a couple of those heavy relics simply because of how nice they feel. Personally I don't like the look of the heavy relic but they feel nice and there is absolutely no stress on how many bumps and bruises they get on the road.
Say you went to concert of a 1970-1980s band and you are in the front row. You see a guitar player in front of you playing well worn Les Paul. Would you think - look at all that wear on that guitar, must have been from 40-50 years of touring with it, that's so cool! Or would you go - meh, he probably just got that guitar back from the Historic Makeovers? If he plays that newly reliced copy guitar and people in the audience think it's been with the band for decades, that's a deception IMHO.
 

BluesDudeAK

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Makes perfect sense, never looked at it that way!
But they weren't making and beating it up for you. Maybe you're 15 years old and have 70 years to do it your self. They make these relics for 50-60 year olds that don't have enough life left to put that wear on it.
70 years is probably about right to get a comfortable worn neck for working stiffs that are lucky to find an hour to play . . . and / or want to have more than one guitar. Or just buy the guitar that way . . . either relic or well used. I've owned lots of pretty Gibson guitars over the years and now just have two '90 Classics. One got a relic makeover from Lays Guitars, including French mother of pearl inlays. The other I got from a gigging musician. It looks equally rough but without the inlays and finish checking. I could get by with one, but can't make a choice on which one to keep. The one that Lays worked on was at the upper end of what I'm willing to spend on a guitar. The used Classic cost a third of that. One has Sigil Holy Grail '58 pickups, the other a '59 set. Both sound amazing through the modded AC-15 Vox Heritage. Everything for less than a mid priced ML.
 

golfnut

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Say you went to concert of a 1970-1980s band and you are in the front row. You see a guitar player in front of you playing well worn Les Paul. Would you think - look at all that wear on that guitar, must have been from 40-50 years of touring with it, that's so cool! Or would you go - meh, he probably just got that guitar back from the Historic Makeovers? If he plays that newly reliced copy guitar and people in the audience think it's been with the band for decades, that's a deception IMHO.
I don't waste 5 seconds of my time analyzing and wondering whether some guitar a player is playing is fake wear or real wear. I could care less. Can the player play good? That's what I'm watching for? As for this moronic ideology that a person playing a guitar with fake wear is somehow a deception, well if that makes you feel better have at it. Does that mean that a Custom shop R9\R8\R7, etc is a deception because, well you know they aren't real 57\58\59's.
Me, I'm playing my custom shop Fender relics every night loving the comfort of well worn necks and bodies. I'm working on my skill while you're worried I'm deceiving the world.:thumbs:
And if I went to a concert in 1970 and saw a well worn Les Paul I would be very certain it wasn't 40-50 years old.
 

darkvoice

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I don't waste 5 seconds of my time analyzing and wondering whether some guitar a player is playing is fake wear or real wear. I could care less. Can the player play good? That's what I'm watching for? As for this moronic ideology that a person playing a guitar with fake wear is somehow a deception, well if that makes you feel better have at it. Does that mean that a Custom shop R9\R8\R7, etc is a deception because, well you know they aren't real 57\58\59's.
Me, I'm playing my custom shop Fender relics every night loving the comfort of well worn necks and bodies. I'm working on my skill while you're worried I'm deceiving the world.:thumbs:
And if I went to a concert in 1970 and saw a well worn Les Paul I would be very certain it wasn't 40-50 years old.
I respect that your opinion is different from mine, let's keep it civil and refrain from insults.
 

DBDM

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I posted above without reading the whole thread. Now I went back to reading the whole thread and I guess my answer would be "why does anyone else care how a stranger spends their money?" It is Obviously "worth it" to the buyer. Not worth it to YOU! Great. Dont buy one. We all have our own "little things" in our heads that matter. I like locking tuners. Do they make me sound better? No. Is it some giant inconvienience to wind the strings? Not really. I just like them. Its my guitar and I like it how I like it. If some guy wants to pay $6k for tom murphy to freeze and crack his finish and take a Dremmel and a bag of nuts and bolts to the finish...great. I hope that guy loves it and is inspired by it!

Once a few years ago (I wrote about it) A buddy of mine (who owns a pawn shop) had an employee take in a Chibson (a good one). This particular pawner managed to fool 12 Nashville pawn shops (a tall order). My buddy had it in the back and did not want to sell or display it (for fear of getting a reputation of selling fakes). he gave it to me. I took it home and played with my wife blindly listening to me play it swapping back and forth with one of my Custom Shop LPs. She could not tell which I was playing when I switched back and forth. A testimate to my very mediocre playing? Perhaps. But to her ears they sound the same. Proof positive that I am just as good on a $300 guitar as a $4-5k guitar. I suspect many of us are in that same boat. So my "things" (real ABR-1, long neck tenon, locking tuners, few others) are all in my head. That Chibson had functionally none of that and was some type of plywood inside!
 

mjross

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I posted above without reading the whole thread. Now I went back to reading the whole thread and I guess my answer would be "why does anyone else care how a stranger spends their money?" It is Obviously "worth it" to the buyer. Not worth it to YOU! Great. Dont buy one. We all have our own "little things" in our heads that matter. I like locking tuners. Do they make me sound better? No. Is it some giant inconvienience to wind the strings? Not really. I just like them. Its my guitar and I like it how I like it. If some guy wants to pay $6k for tom murphy to freeze and crack his finish and take a Dremmel and a bag of nuts and bolts to the finish...great. I hope that guy loves it and is inspired by it!

Once a few years ago (I wrote about it) A buddy of mine (who owns a pawn shop) had an employee take in a Chibson (a good one). This particular pawner managed to fool 12 Nashville pawn shops (a tall order). My buddy had it in the back and did not want to sell or display it (for fear of getting a reputation of selling fakes). he gave it to me. I took it home and played with my wife blindly listening to me play it swapping back and forth with one of my Custom Shop LPs. She could not tell which I was playing when I switched back and forth. A testimate to my very mediocre playing? Perhaps. But to her ears they sound the same. Proof positive that I am just as good on a $300 guitar as a $4-5k guitar. I suspect many of us are in that same boat. So my "things" (real ABR-1, long neck tenon, locking tuners, few others) are all in my head. That Chibson had functionally none of that and was some type of plywood inside!
Interesting, hmmmmm….
 

Mr.6 String

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I was actually curious to know this. Are the Murphy Labs in general better in terms of tone and playability than the regular VOS historics? Or is it just a difference in relicing?
They do sound different, the finish is different it’s like an eggshell compared to the regular nitro on the customshops, they sound better to me
 

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