Why Epiphones suck

ext1jdh

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Not really sure what you're talking about, Sentry, my Epi doesn't buzz and stays in tune.
 

ext1jdh

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Good point. Then again, they're pretty cheap.
 

Kamen_Kaiju

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Grease the nut, set the action.

If I could learn to play on the unbelievable pieces of cheap crap that were around 20 years ago, then anyone can learn on the new "cheap" guitars.

I set up an S101 Strat style for a student of mine last week and I was shocked at how good it sounded and how playable it was. All for $100. She's going to be able to use that guitar for the next 2 years easily.

When I was a kid my first LP copy was a black Aspen, now that was an ungodly piece of sh*t that wouldn't stay in tune. But I still played the hell out of it because it's all I had at the time, and I knew the future would hold better guitars, which it did.

It's all about desire. If you have the desire to play guitar, and the passion, then nothing is ever going to stop you. If you want to nit pick and look for excuses to not practice you're only going to get so good.

Doesn't mean you'll suck, but it could definitely mean you'll never be great. And personally I didn't pick up the guitar thinking, "I want to be #2." I picked it up wanting to be the most amazing guitarist ever. And I'm sure a lot of other people felt the same way and sacrificed huge chunks of their life to practicing, playing and writing as well.

It's all about the passion to keep playing no matter what, despite your equipment, despite your income level, you just keep playing. Your wife leaves, the band falls apart and you've got $5. to your name? Do you buy a Big-Mac or a new set of strings?

You buy new strings, and you keep playing.
 

The_Sentry

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It all depends, Malikon. What I'm saying is this...no matter who you, or I started on...if someone spends 5-600 dollars on a guitar and it plays like sh!t, then it's NOT a deal by any means.

ESPECIALLY if the "other guys" are taking extra steps to ensure theirs DON'T play like sh!t. And that's what this thread REALLY boils down to.
 

AngryHatter

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It all depends, Malikon. What I'm saying is this...no matter who you, or I started on...if someone spends 5-600 dollars on a guitar and it plays like sh!t, then it's NOT a deal by any means.

ESPECIALLY if the "other guys" are taking extra steps to ensure theirs DON'T play like sh!t. And that's what this thread REALLY boils down to.
I have not found a guitar yet that could not benefit from a good setup.
And that a good setup is the difference between a guitar playing like crap and ringing with magic.
 

The_Sentry

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I have not found a guitar yet that could not benefit from a good setup.
And that a good setup is the difference between a guitar playing like crap and ringing with magic.
I do know of a few that don't need "as much".

Then there's the question of guitars coming out of the factory that shouldn't have in the first place...:hmm:
 

TeleDog

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I have to agree with the original post. Epiphone is not a guitar company but some "operation" Gibson's runing to offer some cheaper guitars because, hey, offering an affordable guitar with the Gibson name is degrading to them...

However, the message I get is "shut up and be happy you can buy this from us". It's ok to make a guitar with a veneer, but what you find under those veneers can be scary, very scary. I've seen Epis with crooked tuners, really crappy finishes and others that can't be played.

There are some great Epis out there, but just like Gibson, quality is going down hill and fast.

But they don't care, Gibson doesn't care. The LP model is famous enough and an icon of popular culture, and Gibson will protect those rights with all they got (remember Gibson v. Ibanez?).... so they KNOW all too well if you want a LP (and who doesn't?) you'll spend the money and hope for the best.
 

shtdaprdtr

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I had a discussion over on another forum about the new Kramers Gibson offers. They keep em cheap and they (along with Fender) tried to buy up all of the other brands in order to keep them under control and keep a lot of them off the shelves so that they can saturate the GC's and other chains with their own products (the Gibsons and Fenders). Yes Fender released some Charvels through Sam Ash mainly...but they really keep all their sister brands in check..as does Gibson with kramer (not that Kramer really had much of a shot coming back) but they tried to even keep them below Epi nowadays to make sure the Epi's sell so that they may be a stepping stone to the Gibson USA line and so on. PRS is really screwing them with this..they are the only other main manufacturer that is in that price bracket of their USA lines (which is why they went after the singlecut instead of ESP's Eclipse guitars)
 

X–Ray

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<snip> they really keep all their sister brands in check <snip>
i know this is a bit OT, as for myself, i would find it very interesting, and possibly helpful,
to know specifically what are Gibson's and Fender's "sister brands" so that
for the uninformed, such as myself, one could be more of an "educated consumer"
 

ext1jdh

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Gibson subsidiaries:
Aeolian, Baldwin, Chickering, Electar, Epiphone, Garrison, Gibson Amphitheatre, Hamilton, Kramer, Maestro, MaGIC, Slingerland, Steinberger, Tobias, Valley Arts Guitar, Wurlitzer

Fender subsidiaries:
Squier, Gretsch, Jackson Guitars, Charvel, Hamer, Tacoma, Guild Guitar Company, SWR Sound Corporation, Brand X, Orpheum, Olympia, Heartfield
 

TeleDog

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The thing is that, for example, Jacksons was cool back then and they're still cool today, you want a Jackson and you can buy one. You can get a cheap Jackson and it's a real Jackson, says Jackson right on the headstock and looks like one. Same with Fender.

But Gibson? Gibson thinks their brand name is "too cool" for our own good and if we wanna buy a stripped down guitar, almost bare wood, we have to pay 800 bucks just because it says Gibson.

Fender's main stuff is still guitars and bases for musicians, stuff you buy to play. The Highway one is the prime example. They create guitars for people to play, and have a custom shop that takes care of some signature series, relics and other collectable items but the focus remains guitars and basses for musicians.

Gibson is the opposite. They care about collectors, musicians are just a secondary market feeding off leftovers, used guitars, replicas and knock offs.

Gibson's idea of innovation is letting their minds run free without any input from REAL customers, maybe because Gibson has completely lost touch with reality. The Dusk Tiger is an example... Complicated, difficult, and overpriced.

Do they care? Nope. Will they start caring in the near future? Unlikely.
 

zzdaytripperzz

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Gibson subsidiaries:
Aeolian, Baldwin, Chickering, Electar, Epiphone, Garrison, Gibson Amphitheatre, Hamilton, Kramer, Maestro, MaGIC, Slingerland, Steinberger, Tobias, Valley Arts Guitar, Wurlitzer

Fender subsidiaries:
Squier, Gretsch, Jackson Guitars, Charvel, Hamer, Tacoma, Guild Guitar Company, SWR Sound Corporation, Brand X, Orpheum, Olympia, Heartfield
i never knew Hamer was part of fender......well then again i never thought to look it up
:io: :slap: :wtf:
 

JackOfBlades

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The thing is that, for example, Jacksons was cool back then and they're still cool today, you want a Jackson and you can buy one. You can get a cheap Jackson and it's a real Jackson, says Jackson right on the headstock and looks like one. Same with Fender.

But Gibson? Gibson thinks their brand name is "too cool" for our own good and if we wanna buy a stripped down guitar, almost bare wood, we have to pay 800 bucks just because it says Gibson.

Fender's main stuff is still guitars and bases for musicians, stuff you buy to play. The Highway one is the prime example. They create guitars for people to play, and have a custom shop that takes care of some signature series, relics and other collectable items but the focus remains guitars and basses for musicians.

Gibson is the opposite. They care about collectors, musicians are just a secondary market feeding off leftovers, used guitars, replicas and knock offs.

Gibson's idea of innovation is letting their minds run free without any input from REAL customers, maybe because Gibson has completely lost touch with reality. The Dusk Tiger is an example... Complicated, difficult, and overpriced.

Do they care? Nope. Will they start caring in the near future? Unlikely.
Pretty much what I wanted to say. This is why Gibson won't fail anytime soon: they're doing everything to stay alive and they won't change anything, because that involves losing money. And nobody likes that.
:/
 

Dolebludger

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That's true, but my Epi bought new would not get lthe low action I like without a fret level and polish ($65 at my luthier). A large number of inexpensive guitars I have bought over the years could get that low action without this expense. Epi's warranty covers this only if the strings won't go to 4/64" at the 12th fret on the high E, and 6/64" at the 12th fret on the low E. Now damn it, that is too high an action for some of us. I needed a lower action, and had to pay to get it on a NEW Epi. I didn't have to do this on my '83 Electra X330, or my '83 Hondo II longhorn, or my "Partscaster" My kids bought me this summer for $200. Hey, guys, I'm talking about some cheap guitars here, that didn't need a fret level/polish to get the low action I want without a pro fret level/polish -- that my new Epi needed.

Yeah, my Epi plays and sounds great now. I bought it for $474 (case included) new, and spent another $300 in upgrades (including the fret level/polish). I bought the Epi specifically wanting a gold top P 90 LP, and my only other "true to form" alternative was a $4,000 (plus case) Gibson. So I'm not disappointed in the total cost of a great playing LP P 90 my Epi, which has come with considerable additional investment. But here I was looking for something as close to a REAL '56 Gibson LP goldtop P 90 I used to have as I could afford -- and I got it, plus a number of things better. All after I spent $474 for the guitar and $300 or so in upgrades.

But in the future, if I'm just looking for an inexpensive guitar that plays good right out of the box, I don't think it will be an Epi. Out of the box, Epis seem to need too much in the way of mods and upgrades to suit me, and to justify their price,
 

hbucker

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The op is a perfect example of how one decent guitar product can't just be better than another decent product. If one is better, the other one SUCKS! -Whatever

I've played Epis and Gibsons that had horrible QC issues. I've also played Epis and Gibsons that virtually any pro could gig with.

To me it's pretty much a given that Gibson often has their nose in the air and they constantly look down that nose. But the fact is, people buy their products. So either the people who buy their products are pretty much all idiots, or Gibson's products aren't as universally bad as some people would have us believe.
 

shtdaprdtr

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The op is a perfect example of how one decent guitar product can't just be better than another decent product. If one is better, the other one SUCKS! -Whatever

I've played Epis and Gibsons that had horrible QC issues. I've also played Epis and Gibsons that virtually any pro could gig with.

To me it's pretty much a given that Gibson often has their nose in the air and they constantly look down that nose. But the fact is, people buy their products. So either the people who buy their products are pretty much all idiots, or Gibson's products aren't as universally bad as some people would have us believe.
Id go with the first one....myself included:thumb:
 

shtdaprdtr

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Its not that they suck for the sake of sucking....they suck for the price range they are in. If an Epi standard would run $299 lets say...it wouldnt suck so bad cause they would leave room for improvement.
 

Kezia

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I've played a $50 Epiphone Les Paul Jr. with proper setup and everything, it beat some of the Gibson guitars I've played!
 

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