Why don't Explorers have string trees? (and other 6-in-line Gibsons?)

[James Dean]

I was under the impression that all guitars with a 6-in-line tuning post configuration need string trees. Do explorers have tuning stability issues? Does the shape of the headstock in any way compensate for the lack of string trees? Am I being stupid and Explorers do in fact have string trees?

 

[BrianM]

They don't need trees because the headstock is angled back, like a Les Paul.

 

[KrymsinViking]

Yeah what above said. Guitars like fender's 6 in lines the headstocks are flat so you don't have enough break angle over the nut, especially when using the tremolos. Since explorers are angled and don't use a tremolo they don't need them.

 

[Northwinds]

They don't need trees because the headstock is angled back, like a Les Paul.

This

 

[donepearce]

Yeah what above said. Guitars like fender's 6 in lines the headstocks are flat so you don't have enough break angle over the nut, especially when using the tremolos. Since explorers are angled and don't use a tremolo they don't need them.

My Jeff Beck signature Strat doesn't have a string tree, and manages just fine. And of course Jeff is one of the ultimate tremolo users. My guess is that losing the string tree removes another source of friction in the chain, making tuning stability better.

 

[The Archer]

I was under the impression that all guitars with a 6-in-line tuning post configuration need string trees. Do explorers have tuning stability issues? Does the shape of the headstock in any way compensate for the lack of string trees? Am I being stupid and Explorers do in fact have string trees?

I blame the Shriners

 

[FUS44]

The curve of the hockey stick helps as well.

 

[BrianM]

My Jeff Beck signature Strat doesn't have a string tree, and manages just fine. And of course Jeff is one of the ultimate tremolo users. My guess is that losing the string tree removes another source of friction in the chain, making tuning stability better.

Your JB Strat has staggered tuners, thats why it doesn't need trees. Most Strats don't have those.

 

[donepearce]

Your JB Strat has staggered tuners, thats why it doesn't need trees. Most Strats don't have those.

What do you mean by staggered? Sure they are locking, but otherwise they appear quite normal:

 

[Larry Mal]

A good way to see this is with the Gibson Firebird. You can see that the neck is angled away from the body, and the headstock is angled away still further from the neck further:

Gibson.com: Gibson Firebird V 2010

This adds a lot of break angle from the bridge to the nut, and still more break angle and resulting pressure from the nut to the tuners. This eliminates the need for string trees. One downside is that this makes Gibsons much more breakable, especially at the headstock.

On Fenders, the neck comes straight off the body- no break angle, or not much- and except for a shallow depression, there's not much break angle from the nut to the tuners. Adding the string tree helps the lighter strings have the pressure that the heavier strings would have and all that.

With Fenders, you sometimes have to add break angle by adding a shim underneath the neck where it joins the body, which makes it angle away from the body the same as what Gibson does on all their guitars when they glue the neck in. Alternatively, Fender has the Micro-Tilt on all their newer guitars, which will also angle the neck away slightly (it's not as much as what Gibson has, though) and add break angle. You do this in order to be able to have lower action, as well as the advantages you get with the added break angle.

But Gibson, due to their glued in necks, doesn't have the option of adding or removing the angle that the necks come off the body, so it has to be set in place once and hopefully forever.

 

[Larry Mal]

What do you mean by staggered? Sure they are locking, but otherwise they appear quite normal:

For whatever reason, it's considered that with locking tuners you don't need string trees. I have locking tuners on all my guitars, though, and still have string trees. I'm skeptical. On the other hand, though, I don't use the tremolo much if at all, and I can see why someone who does would not want another point of friction, as has been noted.

 

[27sauce]

What do you mean by staggered? Sure they are locking, but otherwise they appear quite normal:

look closer

 

[donepearce]

look closer

Ah! Got it. Thanks.

 

[donepearce]

For whatever reason, it's considered that with locking tuners you don't need string trees. I have locking tuners on all my guitars, though, and still have string trees. I'm skeptical. On the other hand, though, I don't use the tremolo much if at all, and I can see why someone who does would not want another point of friction, as has been noted.

Don't you find that the firsst and second strings tend to bind a little in the trees as you tune them? On another of my Strats, I hear the dreaded "ting" noises as I tune up the strings that have trees.

Obviously I have them well lubed. My favourite is a mix of very finely ground carbon (from artists' charcoal) and vaseline. Never seems to dry out, and doesn't go all over the place like runnier mixes do.

 

[Larry Mal]

No, I never really notice that. I also don't lubricate the string trees, although maybe I should.

 

[KrymsinViking]

My Jeff Beck signature Strat doesn't have a string tree, and manages just fine. And of course Jeff is one of the ultimate tremolo users. My guess is that losing the string tree removes another source of friction in the chain, making tuning stability better.

Never really listened to Jeff Beck, is his tremolo use more akin to vibrato? Or out right tremolo abuse (dumping the bar and such) because dumping it while using light strings can quickly result in strings that are no longer seated on the nut. However if your just using vibrato, and or heavy strings in conjunction with the staggered tuners you could easily get away without the trees.

 

[BrianM]

What do you mean by staggered? Sure they are locking, but otherwise they appear quite normal:

Thats actually a great pic to see staggered tuners.

 

[donepearce]

Never really listened to Jeff Beck, is his tremolo use more akin to vibrato? Or out right tremolo abuse (dumping the bar and such) because dumping it while using light strings can quickly result in strings that are no longer seated on the nut. However if your just using vibrato, and or heavy strings in conjunction with the staggered tuners you could easily get away without the trees.

See for yourself - here's a typical piece of Beck.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAOMGZVUP60"]Jeff Beck-Live at Ronnie Scott's-Goodbye Pork Pie Hat /Brush With The Blues - YouTube[/ame]