Why buy a '59 replica?

OldBenKenobi

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Oh, so it's a bit hush hush, but you fake Gibson replica guys are on a secret mission, kinda caped crusaders for a better Gibson, surreptitiously injecting your new and improved 'burst' formula into a now sadly diminished Gibson DNA. Who woulda thunkit, SUNSHINE??



Yep, understood. RAG will be the new SLASH!! RAG ...SLASH ...SLASH ...RAG ... the marketing guys will be all over this!!!

:laugh2::wave::laugh2::wave::laugh2::wave:

That isn't what I said at all. Please don't **** with what I said, it makes me cranky.

If you can't tell the difference between a product that harms Gibson's business and a product that does them absolutely no harmo then stop huffing your own farts, get off your high horse and go somewhere else because we don't want or need people that stupid around here.
 

RAG7890

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That isn't what I said at all. Please don't **** with what I said, it makes me cranky.

If you can't tell the difference between a product that harms Gibson's business and a product that does them absolutely no harmo then stop huffing your own farts, get off your high horse and go somewhere else because we don't want or need people that stupid around here.

+ 1 OBK :thumb: :applause:

Some people understand & some people do not.

It is cool if you do not want to understand but take it somewhere else............I am over entering in to a battle of wits with someone who is totally unarmed & wearing blinkers. :)

:hmm:..........as for Slash, well I am an Aussie, so I take a Slash at least every day. :laugh2: :D

Oh I forgot to add................I don't smoke! :rofl:

:cheers:
 

andreww

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IMO the same rules apply to replicas as Chinese fakes. No difference at all. I have yet to see a Chinese dealer trying to pass a fake off as real. Its the public that does that. Same can be said for Replicas. Go to Eric Ernst's site and check out ally the guys that have been ripped off for hundreds of thousands buying high end replicas, thinking they were genuine. So what is the difference? The fact that these replica makers hide in the shadows is a pretty good indication that even they know it's not right.

That said, I don't give a shit. If I bought a replica it would have the Gibson logo on it. I wouldn't spend that much cash to make sure it was 100% accurate and then have a totally inaccurate headstock. But I am man enough to admit that its wrong to do it.
 

RAG7890

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IMO the same rules apply to replicas as Chinese fakes. No difference at all. I have yet to see a Chinese dealer trying to pass a fake off as real. Its the public that does that. Same can be said for Replicas. Go to Eric Ernst's site and check out ally the guys that have been ripped off for hundreds of thousands buying high end replicas, thinking they were genuine. So what is the difference? The fact that these replica makers hide in the shadows is a pretty good indication that even they know it's not right.

That said, I don't give a shit. If I bought a replica it would have the Gibson logo on it. I wouldn't spend that much cash to make sure it was 100% accurate and then have a totally inaccurate headstock. But I am man enough to admit that its wrong to do it.

Ripping people off is endemic in the Guitar world. Selling a Replica as a Burst is totally dishonest but some dealers can't help themselves. Guitars, Amps, Pickups etc. etc. have been misrepresented across the board for many, many, years. There is a store in Sydney that is reputed to have made more L Series Strats than Fender ever did.

Mine certainly won't be sold because when I am dead & buried they'll go to my Son who also plays. They also have marks that an expert can pick a mile away.

FWIW, if you are going to spend several hundred thousand dollars on a Burst & you are too stupid to tight to hire Eric or Tom, Joe or Lou you are a MORON IMHO!

My 2c FWIW............& I am man enough to admit that I want another one! :laugh2:

:cheers:
 

andreww

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Ripping people off is endemic in the Guitar world. Selling a Replica as a Burst is totally dishonest but some dealers can't help themselves. Guitars, Amps, Pickups etc. etc. have been misrepresented across the board for many, many, years. There is a store in Sydney that is reputed to have made more L Series Strats than Fender ever did.

Mine certainly won't be sold because when I am dead & buried they'll go to my Son who also plays. They also have marks that an expert can pick a mile away.

FWIW, if you are going to spend several hundred thousand dollars on a Burst & you are too stupid to tight to hire Eric or Tom, Joe or Lou you are a MORON IMHO!

My 2c FWIW............& I am man enough to admit that I want another one! :laugh2:

:cheers:

I get that you wont sell it, but what happens if your house gets burglarized? At some point in time its going to be out of your hands, or your son's hands, and its history will be forgotten. And I agree about having an expert opinion when buying an expensive guitar, but the same could be said about any Gibson. Nobody has given one point that differentiates a rep from a chinese fake (besides the obvious quality) justifying the Gibson branding. In my opinion These replicas are even more harmful to Gibson than the chinese fakes. Nobody seriously considering a real Gibby is going to think that a $250 mail order from China is going to come close to a $1500 Les Paul. So I doubt Gibson looses anything from these guys. Epiphone might, not Gibson. However, these replicas do directly compete with Gibson Historics and Custom shop guitars, and they do take a significant amount of money away from Gibson's sales.
 

billy

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I'm not sure Gibson cares that much.. Look at Slash for example, his guitar was a replica that reignited a lot of people's desire for Les Pauls. It was only a few years after he hit the scene the whole historic program started. Then a few years ago they made a replica of his replica, and made them a lot more than they lost because Slash bought 1 guitar... they made hundreds of them.

And why doesn't Gibson just make a true replica? If they were losing that much it would be in their interest to do so, so obviously the cost of doing so doesn't seem worth it to them.. Instead they'd rather drip feed a couple of changes every few years and say this is the closest one yet, but still leaving enough stuff wrong to change in the future. They've been building the reissues for 20 or so years now, surely if they had the intention to get it right it would have been done long ago, and that's not even going into the difference in build quality, wood etc... between handmade replicas and factory built reissues.
 

RAG7890

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I get that you wont sell it, but what happens if your house gets burglarized? At some point in time its going to be out of your hands, or your son's hands, and its history will be forgotten. And I agree about having an expert opinion when buying an expensive guitar, but the same could be said about any Gibson. Nobody has given one point that differentiates a rep from a chinese fake (besides the obvious quality) justifying the Gibson branding. In my opinion These replicas are even more harmful to Gibson than the chinese fakes. Nobody seriously considering a real Gibby is going to think that a $250 mail order from China is going to come close to a $1500 Les Paul. So I doubt Gibson looses anything from these guys. Epiphone might, not Gibson. However, these replicas do directly compete with Gibson Historics and Custom shop guitars, and they do take a significant amount of money away from Gibson's sales.

Fair point but I have a 45kg (100lb) Rhodesian Ridgeback...............good luck to any burglar entering my home when I am not there. :D

I have put notations in each of my guitars...........so no one will ever be fooled by these if they take a close look (except for the pickups, which are Vintage) & I can't see my Son ever selling them..............not his persona.

I totally disagree that Replicas take sales away from Gibson. I started by buying ~ 30 Historics (most new) & then moved on to Replicas. Most of us have.

All my keepers are Luthier built guitars, Replicas & otherwise. Buying another Historic was NOT even a remote consideration...........again like many others.

I just don't think some of you actually understand but each to their own I suppose. That is what makes each of us different & makes the world go round. :)

:cheers:
 

jamman

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Replica Police are back for a visit . Imo , There's a vast differece between those Crappy $250 guitars and an Instrument that's hand built to order, to a customers details . If you can't tell the difference , look at them again . Play 1.
What is wrong about someone Commissioning a private built instument ? It's not as if they are being sold by the dozens to the general public .
And they are better. I have 1 replica and even though it's not made by the "best" it's better than ever Gibson LP I own now. It's the guitar Every new Gibson LP I buy gets tested against .

You Police are correct , in saying there is no grey area . Who cares ? Gibson , for the most part doesn't . If they did , why would Gibson Make that Slash guitar ,which was as Replica . So ,Gibson themselves made a Fake of a Fake ? Nice . It's only when they say it's good that's it's OK . Do you think any Standards to desiding what is good to do and what is not, should be applied ? Wow , It's funny when big money is involved with companies, All is good with the world and don't do as they do . Just do as they say .

Whom Desides these standards anyway ? Gibson ? You ? Big Brother ? See the problem ?

As to someone stealing a Replica ? We don 't live in a world of what if , we live in a world of , this is ......

If Gibson was smart enough to offer this type of service to it High Rollers (which it did to some extent a while back) And do a Custom Shop Guitar build correctly , They could clean up . But Gibson is now in the Business of selling high end RI's for dreamers and posers . And taking them to the cleaners . (Imo, Spending 6-8K+ on a guitar , your a High Roller, as that's big money no matter where you are in life)

So those who can , Pay to have it done as they want ,Correctly . and the kicker is , These builders are making beter guitars than Gibson is producing today. And that's what players really want in the end , A great playing guitar .

So Only a Gibson will do , as long as your willing to settle for the offering your given .
 

Jean Christophe

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Very nice Rudy to mention Gil about G logo !!
What about your guitar ? Do you want me to publish the headstock of your 58 LP on the forum...
Jean Christophe
 

andreww

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Replica Police are back for a visit . Imo , There's a vast differece between those Crappy $250 guitars and an Instrument that's hand built to order, to a customers details . If you can't tell the difference , look at them again . Play 1.
What is wrong about someone Commissioning a private built instument ? It's not as if they are being sold by the dozens to the general public .
And they are better. I have 1 replica and even though it's not made by the "best" it's better than ever Gibson LP I own now. It's the guitar Every new Gibson LP I buy gets tested against .

You Police are correct , in saying there is no grey area . Who cares ? Gibson , for the most part doesn't . If they did , why would Gibson Make that Slash guitar ,which was as Replica . So ,Gibson themselves made a Fake of a Fake ? Nice . It's only when they say it's good that's it's OK . Do you think any Standards to desiding what is good to do and what is not, should be applied ? Wow , It's funny when big money is involved with companies, All is good with the world and don't do as they do . Just do as they say .

Whom Desides these standards anyway ? Gibson ? You ? Big Brother ? See the problem ?

As to someone stealing a Replica ? We don 't live in a world of what if , we live in a world of , this is ......

If Gibson was smart enough to offer this type of service to it High Rollers (which it did to some extent a while back) And do a Custom Shop Guitar build correctly , They could clean up . But Gibson is now in the Business of selling high end RI's for dreamers and posers . And taking them to the cleaners . (Imo, Spending 6-8K+ on a guitar , your a High Roller, as that's big money no matter where you are in life)

So those who can , Pay to have it done as they want ,Correctly . and the kicker is , These builders are making beter guitars than Gibson is producing today. And that's what players really want in the end , A great playing guitar .

So Only a Gibson will do , as long as your willing to settle for the offering your given .

I get what you are saying, believe me. But my main point is that there is actually no difference in putting a Gibson logo on a cheap Chinese guitar or a $10k replica. Whether the fake product is far better or far worse than the original makes no difference whatsoever.

As for your guitar being sold as genuine, its easy to say today that it will not be, but how about 50 or a 100 years from now. At some point in time that guitar of yours will end up in the hands of somebody that you don't know. Then how will you ensure that someone doesn't get ripped off?

I'm all for putting Gibson on the headstock of these things, but I also think there should be a makers mark stamped in a cavity or something.

There is always going to be guys on here that are going to get their panties in a bunch over such things, whether it be chinese fakes, replicas or even fake relicing. As far as I'm concerned, if you are being honest and not breaking any laws, then all the power to you. But you can still admit that there is something morally wrong with doing it.
 

RAG7890

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Very nice Rudy to mention Gil about G logo !!
What about your guitar ? Do you want me to publish the headstock of your 58 LP on the forum...
Jean Christophe

Hey Jean, I didn't bring it up did I? Did you read previous Post? Not going to let that one slide................thought you'd give me a like for that one. :)

FWIW I have several not just from one.

You mentioning it again just adds to a Post that will more than likely get ignored anyway, so you are just perpetuating the issue.

Apart from that I hope all is well mate. :)

Cheers, Rudi
 

crompo

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There is absolutely no way on earth i would by a 59 fake with a G logo on it.
It's just wrong on so many levels.

Everyone knows replica gold tops with the G logo are king !
 

RAG7890

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:lol: :lol: :lol: You are a funny bastard Wayne! :)

Cheers, Rudi
 

jamman

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I get what you are saying, believe me. But my main point is that there is actually no difference in putting a Gibson logo on a cheap Chinese guitar or a $10k replica. Whether the fake product is far better or far worse than the original makes no difference whatsoever.

As for your guitar being sold as genuine, its easy to say today that it will not be, but how about 50 or a 100 years from now. At some point in time that guitar of yours will end up in the hands of somebody that you don't know. Then how will you ensure that someone doesn't get ripped off?

I'm all for putting Gibson on the headstock of these things, but I also think there should be a makers mark stamped in a cavity or something.

There is always going to be guys on here that are going to get their panties in a bunch over such things, whether it be chinese fakes, replicas or even fake relicing. As far as I'm concerned, if you are being honest and not breaking any laws, then all the power to you. But you can still admit that there is something morally wrong with doing it.

I know for a fact that it would never pass as a real deal Original . That's easy for me to see , and if I can (I'm no expert by any means) , I'd guess to say most would see it too .

Still it's better than What Gibson sells today , but it's no MIC(Made In China) POS .Remember when you order a Replica (build) you get what you want the guitar to be for your playing . That's what "Custom" really means, Not just a COA from Gibson telling everybody you paid alot for it ,but really got a production line guitar . I've seen some who post they are hand built.Who's fooling whom ?


I'd bet to say that if the person paying a builder to make a guitar for them , told him to put another name on the headstock , they would do it with no question . They are paying for the build . Tell China that

If One thinks he would be buying a Real Original Les Paul from 1959 , and wouldn 't pay an expert to evaluate it , than they are fools . Because of the amount of money involved. I'm sure your heard it before....Buyer be ware. it is the buyers responsibility to do what's needed to make sure to the best of their ability that they are buying the real deal ,if that's what it is offered as . Not mine or anyone elses.
Even High-End Art dealer and auction houses get fooled with Art much more valuable that any Les Paul and certified as real by experts. That's life . In the Billions of $$$'s every year .

Question , If I came to you to sell you a $150,000 LesPaul or whatever a great condition Burst goes for these days. You would just hand the money over with out it being completely checked and verified ?

Yeah , I didn't think so . Open the window before you throw out that theory . Who knows if Gibson Les Pauls with still be a desired type of guitar in 100 years ? You do ? Got the Loitto #'s for Satuday night Powerball ??? :lol:

Who worries about anything that happens after we'er long dead and gone . No matter how hard you try , there is nothing you can do to control the future . What is done today can be undone ,when your gone . And none of us will have anything to say about it .

The Only things assured in life are 2 things ....You know what they are ,Yes?
Life's a crap shoot .

If you believe ther is no difference between a Chinese guitar that is a production line 500-5000 pcs vs. a hand made guitar (very small lots of guitars) , you need ,imo re-examine your comparison of the 2 . Because they don't, on any level .

Imo "fake"implies deception . to the buyer . Maybe this and Maybe that . Maybe the world end tomorrow too . Chances are that's not going to happen.
Why would i admit to something , I don 't agree with . So i wouldn't

Rant done :lol:
 

alexanderja

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Is this a sh#tty time to mention that i have a mint genuine '59 burst for sale, quick sale needed,....just $50K :naughty:
 

andreww

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If you believe ther is no difference between a Chinese guitar that is a production line 500-5000 pcs vs. a hand made guitar (very small lots of guitars) , you need ,imo re-examine your comparison of the 2 . Because they don't, on any level .


Imo "fake"implies deception . to the buyer .

When I said there is no difference I meant that there is no difference in the morality of using the Gibson logo. Obviously there is a huge difference in quality.

And I own a fake Chinese EDS 1275 and there was no deception at all. In fact, when I was shopping for it the ads and sellers made it pretty clear that it was fake. There was no deception whatsoever.

It just seems like a lot of people here have a double standard that they use to suit their own needs. A budget fake from China is evil, and a high priced American made fake is acceptable. All I'm saying is that all the same arguments that against the Chinese fakes are valid with replicas.

As for having a $100,000 guitar inspected, that is something I would obviously do. However, there are plenty of people out there that have been fooled already, so either their expert is being fooled or they didn't use one. Just because I say my fake 1275 will never be sold does not make the issue go away. And if people are being fooled by cheap Chinese Gibbys, then I'm pretty sure that it would be 10 times easier to fool someone with a replica.
 

billy

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When I said there is no difference I meant that there is no difference in the morality of using the Gibson logo. Obviously there is a huge difference in quality.

And I own a fake Chinese EDS 1275 and there was no deception at all. In fact, when I was shopping for it the ads and sellers made it pretty clear that it was fake. There was no deception whatsoever.

It just seems like a lot of people here have a double standard that they use to suit their own needs. A budget fake from China is evil, and a high priced American made fake is acceptable. All I'm saying is that all the same arguments that against the Chinese fakes are valid with replicas.

As for having a $100,000 guitar inspected, that is something I would obviously do. However, there are plenty of people out there that have been fooled already, so either their expert is being fooled or they didn't use one. Just because I say my fake 1275 will never be sold does not make the issue go away. And if people are being fooled by cheap Chinese Gibbys, then I'm pretty sure that it would be 10 times easier to fool someone with a replica.

Mines neither so I think I'm in the clear!! :fingersx: :laugh2:
 

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