Why are the older "True Historics" worth more than the 18's & 19's?

bridger

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Shopping around online for a used Les Paul I noticed the older "True" Historics (from 2015/2016) command a significantly higher asking price than the new ones (on the used market)
Why is that? The only differences I see on the specs is that the R-9's have slightly chunkier necks & the R-8's have med/jumbo frets instead of the "tall/narrow". ??
 

CaptainT

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Because only the 2015/2016 are "True Historics", a limited run.

The newer guitars have "true historic specs"
 

HIDDEN

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Perhaps people spent big money on them and try to recoup their loss? Personally I think the 2019 series so far have it all :dunno:
 

freebyrd 69

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Shopping around online for a used Les Paul I noticed the older "True" Historics (from 2015/2016) command a significantly higher asking price than the new ones (on the used market)
Why is that? The only differences I see on the specs is that the R-9's have slightly chunkier necks & the R-8's have med/jumbo frets instead of the "tall/narrow". ??
Examples? I've never noticed that, and AFAIK, there weren't any 2016 true historics.
 

mudface

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As mentioned..... a very limited number of 2015 True Historics were made.... that leaves a very few available in the used market.
 

strat1701

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I believe it's a prime example of listing price vs. actually selling price. A 2015 TH will not get you a red fucking cent more than the going lowball rate people will pay for used reissues. Market is too flooded with 'reissues' TH/R, or whatever the serial number is, is all meaningless. My insight is, people aren't paying jack fucking shit more for a TH from 2015 or 2016.

Anyone can list a used 2015 TH for $$$$$ but they're listing and not really 'selling' at that point.
 

gravedanger

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I think it's more the case that the sellers paid such a high price initially that they think they can recoup the same percentage as other guitars. To me it always was just unfortunate for them as they are more or less "bad investments" (for resale) since the 18s came out.
 

JMB1984

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There really isn’t a reason to pay more for a used TH than say a used 2018 or 19. With the logo, fret and neck profile changes on the more current ones, the TH is no longer the most accurate. Also, the more current ones have the TH plastics and the other features that Gibson used to try and justify the TH pricing. It sucks for those trying to sell them, but sometimes people need a reality check.
 

Thundermtn

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The '16 also has an "S" on the certificate to designate a Standard Historic from a True Historic.

The TH folks were beating their chests over how great they are, the market has spoken though and it looks like they all got clipped by Gibson for a few grand each.

The '15 Standard Historic's were either downgraded in spec or had '14 spec and some creative serial numbering. Buncha garbage goes down, lots of mad CS buyers etc...Turns out that the TH was just too much $, even Prof. Lawyer M.D. has a ceiling on what sort of money they'll spend on an axe. In '16 the Standard Historic went back to '14 spec and was given the R in front of the serial as part of the "downgraded" purchase spec of a Standard vs. the True Historic.
 

freebyrd 69

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The '16 also has an "S" on the certificate to designate a Standard Historic from a True Historic.

The TH folks were beating their chests over how great they are, the market has spoken though and it looks like they all got clipped by Gibson for a few grand each.

The '15 Standard Historic's were either downgraded in spec or had '14 spec and some creative serial numbering. Buncha garbage goes down, lots of mad CS buyers etc...Turns out that the TH was just too much $, even Prof. Lawyer M.D. has a ceiling on what sort of money they'll spend on an axe. In '16 the Standard Historic went back to '14 spec and was given the R in front of the serial as part of the "downgraded" purchase spec of a Standard vs. the True Historic.
2016 was an absolute clusterf#ck for Gibson. That's the bottom line.
 

JimmyAce2006

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2015 and 2016. 2016 standard reissues had R8 xxxx serial numbers for this reason.

People want more for True Historics because they cost more when new.
They also made a few early 2017 TH's. I know of at least one run of "1994" paint job models in Japan that were TH in early 2017. It seems like there may have been an artist and / or CC that was TH in 2017 as well.



.......
 

JimmyAce2006

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There really isn’t a reason to pay more for a used TH than say a used 2018 or 19. With the logo, fret and neck profile changes on the more current ones, the TH is no longer the most accurate. Also, the more current ones have the TH plastics and the other features that Gibson used to try and justify the TH pricing. It sucks for those trying to sell them, but sometimes people need a reality check.

What the new ones do not have that the TH's do have is the thin nitro finish. The new ones also do not have the double top carve / double neck carve that the TH's have. But it is the thin nitro, that many people will argue, affects the tone.




........
 

Gold Tone

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Having played and owned Historic R9’s from

1999
2002
2003
2006
2009
2011
2012
2015
2016
2017
2018

I can attest from 1st hand experience that TH are something special in feel.

Worth the asking price, I don’t know...but something special...most definitely
 

DanD

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Having played and owned Historic R9’s from

1999
2002
2003
2006
2009
2011
2012
2015
2016
2017
2018

I can attest from 1st hand experience that TH are something special in feel.

Worth the asking price, I don’t know...but something special...most definitely
I agree. I've also owned a slew of Rs and find that the TH are a step above.

To me it's the extra attention to the fretwork and as mentioned the finish.

The neck carves are also very sweet.

TH were available from '15-'early '17. I seriously doubt more than 100 or so of any given TH model year (R4, R6, R7, etc..) were produced.
I saw less than 50 BB7s from all the participating dealers combined.
 

modavis99

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I have a TH R0 from 2015. I objected to the upcharge but it was the best sounding and playing reissue in the HOG when I went there so I grudgingly bought it, $2K upcharge and all. Doesn’t mean the entire TH line is special but I think my guitar is.
 
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Gold Tone

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To add, not that it would affect my objectivity (at least I hope I know myself well enough), but price isn’t manipulating my observation...I paid, new, $6800 CAN (equivalent to approx $5000 US). Not much, if any more than a “straight up” Historic R9
 
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strat1701

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I had the 38th TH R9 made that came out of the custom shop. It felt 'nice' , it looked nice, and had an overall different feel (not the neck mind you) but in terms of tone I have other reissues which run circles around it.

Double dish carve, ok, nice. Double neck carve, they still fucked that up imho, it was no where near what it should be. Thin nitro, meh, when I had it refinished by HM with their 'real' nitro formula it didn't change the tone at all as far as I could discern. They're a decent run, (the 15 TH's) but will only be better in the eye of the buyer when they get the one which hits all their boxes, and ANY year reissue can do that.
 


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