Which one would you buy?

[tspoon5150]

Since I have a Real Deal HM, I would go with a Murphy aged Sky Dog.

Hell, matter of fact, it came in yesterday and is bad ass.

Gibson nailed the neck and has a beautiful top. I really like the color,
and is some of Murphy's best work yet. The sides (Rims) are aged, along with
the back. The neck is the closest to an original I have ever owned,
even better than the Shanks.

The huge COA is not signed by Murphy, but does have his trademark
initials below the lead tone bonnet.

I will give a tone report later after time playing it. Will post pictures
soon with a new thread..

To answer the OP's question, I would go with the SkyDog Fillmore
and I also play mine as that is what they are made for.

 

[chinbb]

Let's say someone has given you $11K on the condition that you spend it on one of the two following guitars. Which one would you buy?

Number 1?

Gibson Custom Shop Duane Allman '59 Les Paul Electric Guitar Murphy Aged Double Dirty Lemon | The Music Zoo

Or number 2?

Historic Makeovers Real Deal 1959 Les Paul

For me, it's a slam-dunk decision. You?

I would choose the HM RDS but it might prove to be a tough sale if you do decide to let it go later.

This RDS 98 R9 was sold recently for $5555...deal of a lifetime if you ask me...if only I have the cashflow...
1998 Gibson Monster R9 1959 Les Paul Historic Makeover with Brazilian Board | eBay

 

[Shawn Lutz]

11k? I'd probably buy 3 RI's, R9, R7 and BB7

 

[awphooeey6]

Definitely the HM. If I had 11k to spend on a guitar I would have a hard time imagining I would ever have to let it go for monetary reasons.

 

[HRC]

I'd buy a Traditional. Opp's wrong forum.

 

[sikoniko]

I think that Makeover was at Kim's when I was there. I might have actually played that one acoustically, and heard Kim play it electrically (he always does the solo to heartbreaker ). Absolutely beautiful guitar.

 

[Rollingrock]

HM all the way for me! I would like to point out that the "original" guitar legends that made these guitars didn't, usually that is, have 3...4...5 or 6 of these guitars. The truly great ones that were very successful maybe had 1 backup burst. Also the people that were greats and played these masterpieces are primarily known for playing only these guitars. It was the pinnacle and they knew that. They also payed a hefty premium for these gems. We do the same today in slightly absorbent proportions. It's supply and demand, inflation, availability of materials and many other things that created the prices you pay for a custom replicated guitar. I'd buy the ticket, take the ride. Pay the premium have the "ultimate Les Paul" and play it in good health. I'll be doing that as soon as the funds are there myself. Cheers.

 

[nicudeemus1]

Historic Makeovers. Don't really care much for guitars which are aged to look identical to the original.

 

[RUFFCUT]

Gimme two 2013 R9s or three R8s for $10 000 and I'll pocket the $1000 change for strings, tubes and things.

11k? I'd probably buy 3 RI's, R9, R7 and BB7

If I was limited to one of the two mentioned it would be the HM, if not, something like one of the above...

 

[jamman]

Imo , I think the Resale on the HM is lost because the guitar was moded. Is it a 50th. Anni. ? 'cause it's no longer original . And for me , the neck is way Fat . So I'd have to pass . (buy an R9 you pic out ,send it in and keep the difference)

The DA is, what it is .

I'd shop around some more, with that kind of money and find a great guitar .

 

[Shadowplayer]

this one

 

[sikoniko]

that does look like the guitar I saw/held. It had a beautiful dark red rosewood neck. One of a kind and IMO, perfect flame.

 

[Fiftywattmafia]

The HM. Its priced just a hair high IMO. But, if you love it...don't let that hold you back.

 

[lunchbox]

Neither. I'd get one of these, maybe in VSB.

 

[boyscout]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like about 3-to-1 favor the Historic Makeover over the Duane Allman RI.

One or two people pointed out that the Historic Makeover linked at the start of the thread is marked-up and they can be had for less. By the same token, the MAP on the Allman is $11K so it can be purchased for less too. When it's time to put the money on the table, both a Historic Makeover and a Duane Allman likely cost less than $11K and likely cost about the same.

Someone asked the smart question, "what's the goal in buying it?" Probably two main possibilities - money and playability - right?

My thinking is that Gibson and its dealers have already scooped a lot of the future value of the Allman by pricing it so high. Even people who collect - I'm one - may see it as a lipsticked R9 for a very high price. Several seen in photos don't look like Allman's guitar, having flamey tops similar to most other 2013 R9s. Murphy adds some value, but not THAT much. I'm betting the Allman will resell near it's street price for a while, and it will be even longer before it passes its $11K MAP price.

That's a price which several Collector's Choice guitars with more-reasonable initial prices are already nudging early in their lives. You can just hear Henry saying about pricing the Allman, "We should take a piece of that value growth!" Most businessmen could not blame him for it, but it dulls the interest of some collectors, including me.

No doubt those who have purchased DAs are plotting my murder for speaking out. Sorry!

Historic Makeovers probably do dip in value over the short term. I'm seriously depressed that I missed the Toronto one that reportedly sold for $5,500, I'd have snapped it up. Keep in mind though that selling from Toronto on eBay significantly dampens prices because about 90% of the North American customers don't want border-related costs/hassles.

The reputation of Historic Makeovers is gaining weight, and the supply is even more limited (and physically limited) than Gibson's promises about the Allman and its other limited-series guitars. My own guess is that over time Historic Makeovers will not lag VERY far behind the Allman in value.

I've never even held an HM (I've held lots of R9s) but for that slightly-lower future value, by all accounts I've seen, you get a HELL of a fine guitar. Top-quality electronics instead of Gibson's fake bumblebees and other less-than-stellar parts. Finest other components. Brazilian board (I hear they sound so much better! ). Small-shop care in selection of top wood, carving, and assembly of the guitar. Players say they play and sound BEYOND great - much better than the R9s they start out as - and it just seems easier to believe of them than of the Allman R9s.

Again, I've never played a Historic Makeover. Maybe I'm just a cork-sniffer, but if someone gave me $11K I'd go with the majority on my question and buy the HM.

Flame suit on.

 

[Sct13]

That was a pretty good analysis...I am not a "money guy" But I think your right on or very very close.

 

[jc2000]

11k? I'd probably buy 3 RI's, R9, R7 and BB7

I agree, Id rather buy an R9 and save the money.

 

[gitmohair]

If I *had* to spend the money on one of those two it'd be the HM, but there are plenty of guitars I'd prefer to either TBH.

 

[J Ritt]

If I was going to pick one of those two, I'd go with the HM. That said, if I was working with your budget and goals, I'd probably go a different route. I'd look for the platform that you can transform into your ideal guitar:

• Start shopping for a regular R9. You can find one slightly used in the $3000-$5000 range. Average prices seem to be right around $4200 for a nice example. Price will depend on a variety of factors, but the top seems to have the greatest influence on value. If you aren't going to do a HM, a 2013 seems to be the closest to vintage spec ever offered (and many of them have very nice tops, and have gotten good reviews on the Custom Bucker pickups). If you do plan to do a Historic Makeover, a little play wear and the color doesn't really matter. It could be an amazing top with a clown burst, but you could score a deal on it because that will essentially be erased with a HM anyway. Electronics/pickups may not be a concern if you plan to upgrade them anyway. You just need to make sure the frets are in good order, neck straight, that you like the top, and the overall guitar fits you well. You're basically looking for the tailored suit fit.
• With your budget, you can buy two R9's at a time. You can play them a bit, decide which is the keeper (if either), move the other along, and then bring another in for comparison. Just think of it like one long Pepsi Challenge. If you buy and sell smart, you should be able to break even on most of them, or only lose a few bucks at worst. Along the way, you'll probably learn a good bit, and get to know some cool fellow forum members. IMO, it's no biggie to lose a few bucks on a guitar this valuable if it's not exactly what you're after. Buying a 2013 could potentially be a little more risky, as they are currently still a bit pricier than older examples...and the used market seems a bit soft right now.
• After you've compared a number of R9's, you should have a good idea which one pushed your buttons in terms of feel, playability, etc., and you should still have that one in your possession.
• Then you have options:
  • Be happy with the great guitar you have...or with the two great guitars you have.
  • Send your new best friend off to HM to be turned into your dream piece.
  • Sell one of the R9's and buy a different LP model, some other type of guitar, a new amp, or just drop it on hookers and blow...take your pick. ;p

IMO, looking at any Historic Reissue primarily as an investment isn't the greatest idea, including the CC and Artist Series. Regardless of what people here may say, there are TONS of these guitars circulating in the market. Sure there are some 'limited' models, special runs, etc., and the Pages, Pearly Gates, etc. have definitely proven to hold their value pretty well. In some cases the owners have made out pretty nicely. That said, I've seen plenty of CC and Artist models selling for $6k or less. Keep in mind that if you've got 10 'special runs' of 300 guitars over two years, that's still 3000 guitars put into circulation...on top of the thousands of standard R9's, R8's, etc.

I think if you are really concerned about having something truly limited or special in terms of collect-ability, vintage could be a way to go. To do that will likely take some time and learning though. You could be taken for a serious ride and get totally burned if you don't know what you are doing, or don't have someone to help you. For $11k-$12k, you could probably find something like a pretty nice early 1968 Les Paul Standard (Gold Top), which is about as close to an original 50's LP as you could get on that type of budget. The quantities of those left in the world are finite. And while a '68 is technically also a reissue, many that did exist are now dead, destroyed, or modified beyond redemption. That means relatively low supply remains after 45 years. As long as people remain interested in Les Paul's in general, they will remain interested in the vintage models such as those, and they should retain value. The Historic's will too, but there are just a LOT more of them out there...basic supply and demand. Maybe in 45 years from now there will be a lot fewer 2013's floating around, but by then 1968's will be a lot tougher to come by as well, and will be 90 years old.

All of that said, many people aren't thrilled with the idea of gigging or even playing their $11,000 vintage guitar. What's your pain threshold if someone knocks it off its stand and cracks the neck? There's always that to consider.

Just some thoughts...good luck on finding your dream guitar.

 

[chinbb]

I would choose the HM RDS but it might prove to be a tough sale if you do decide to let it go later.

This RDS 98 R9 was sold recently for $5555...deal of a lifetime if you ask me...if only I have the cashflow...
1998 Gibson Monster R9 1959 Les Paul Historic Makeover with Brazilian Board | eBay

And now another RDS for 6K...the top is less great tho.

Gibson Figured R8 1958 Les Paul Historic Makeover RDS Throbaks Brazilian | eBay