Where is the Danger in Rock and Roll?

GuitarToneFreak

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19 here, raised on rock and roll and while I listen to any type of genre rock is all I play. Haven't played any gigs yet save for a basement gig for family members, but even just practicing my songs I get fired up, I absolutely love playing live music and the guitar.

That being said, I really don't have any interest in making my music dangerous at all, it's not what I've ever made the main point of my songs. I write my songs to make people feel good, that make people want to have a good time. And that's what a lot of great 70's rock is to me (and Hair Metal, but that's a whole 'nother thread :D), it was all about having a good time and having fun. That's what I like, and it's cool to see that people enjoy that kind of stuff. So while it's fine to have sleaze and dangerous sounding bands, that's not my bag. I love playing the melodic stuff, if the crowd feels good than I feel good :)

Also to everybody bringing up record companies in this thread, not every record company has disowned true rock and roll

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hozZAxOuG_Q&feature=related]YouTube - The Last Vegas - Whatever Gets You Off - Official Video[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFRwhwa7DME&feature=related]YouTube - Burn Halo - "Dirty Little Girl" (Official)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zpz2QIn7e4]YouTube - Buckcherry - All night Long HD [Official Song - Lyrics][/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAmZgnUwxWY]YouTube - Murderdolls - Nowhere[/ame]

I know there are still mainstream rock bands like Nickelback, but they're point is to be mainstream. You have to know what type of record labels to look at :dude:
 

Tim Fezziwig

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Shocking can be OK: the Coop had the right kind of tension in "be my lover" or "Under my Wheels" and he was plenty shocking. The Doors had it. Zeppelin had it. INXS had it, the Stones always had it. Really heavy bands like AC/DC and Judas Priest can have it, and George Thorogood and the Stray Cats can have it.

A lot of the "dangerous" stuff in this thread doesn't have it - sexual tension, or simple danceability (which lets the ladies provide the tension regardless of what's going on in the song)

That's why rock is in the doldrums. The chicks are listening to techno, hip hop or country.

You are right Papa. Rock needs female fans. When I was going to shows regularly in 80's and 9o's there were hot girls everywhere. We are dinosaurs Papa. Rock as we know it is DEAD:laugh2: When I saw Iggy in '89 he turned on EVERYBODY. It was a 50% female crowd. He had their panties in a bunch. Stray cats were mating in the parking-lot:laugh2:

I use GG as an extreme example. He is a clown prince. The first time around in'92 I had a following of young boys, I was alot angrier then. The shows I did in 2008+2009 had a nice mix. I brought my wife and I'd say the ratio was 30% women. I pander now. I have become "classic Rock:laugh2:!" The "DEVIL" is still in me though. I try to write hook-laden blasts of hard Punk+Roll. If you can't hum it I don't want to play it. I LOVE Under My Wheels!:dude:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z7I022m5GI]YouTube - Alice Cooper - Under My Wheels 1971[/ame]
 

PapaSquash

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Oh, I know GG is an extreme example, he needed to exist so that there is someone way out on that end of the curve.

"Rock and Roll" used to mean sex. "Rock and Roll music" was music that was about sex or designed to help the process along. You could dance or shake and get all excited and watch that body gyrate, and get in the mood. There were a few slow numbers to give you an opportunity to touch her waist or maybe even grab a handful of butt-cheek.

Songs were about things like dancing and parties and relationships and fighting and making up, fast cars and maybe dying young - good live-for-the-moment stuff, to help take her mind off the possible future consequences of what you have in mind for the back of the car after the show.

The girls ate it up, they swooned, they screamed. Chuck Berry, Elvis, Buddy Holly, the Beatles, ascended and Rock and Roll music was on a roll.

Even a bit later when song subjects got a mite more sophisticated, Mick and the boys wrote "Gimme Shelter" and the answer to war was still "just a kiss away." To hell with nuanced negotiation or any of that BS - let's get it on! The Stones never lost the plot.

Sure we ripped into them for "Miss You" but they still had chicks dancing didn't they?

The rest of the rock world had lost the girls by the Mid 70's. You see, it had become just Rock by then, and when we lost the "roll" we lost our dance partner, the single girl that makes our world go round. Not by accident this is about the same time male acts started playing for the music's sake or "for themselves." Which is like saying "with themselves" for this is when the wanking began.

The girls, wanting to shake that thang, found willing dance partners at discotheques and we all put "Down with Disco" bumper stickers on our muscle cars and listened to seven year-old Zeppelin albums at sausage-fest keg parties. Now and then we cast covetous glances at the cute new wave chicks and told ourselves that The Cars were sort of OK.

Then Van Halen came along and it was loud guitar and shallow innuendo all over again. Rock and roll was back, or so we thought. At least girls were back and that's really all that mattered anyway. All kinds of energetic music was out there, second wave punk, new wave, keyboard bands, hair metal, funk like the Chili Peppers, New British Metal, It was pretty wide open in the 80's and it was fun. Then Nirvana happend. Don't get me wrong, I like 'em but it ain't danceable. and neither is most of the indie stuff that followed.

The Girls, as always wanting to shake that thang, fled to hip hop and techno/dubstep and here were are today. Guitarists are left with 12 bars, nu-metal and backing tracks.

The only bight colors on the horizon are White Stripes, Black Keys and the Machine Gun Blues. you're smart to be a duo, Tim. Seems to be the in thing.

I have a few waitresses in their 20's that work here and they don't care about Rock and Roll. They would not like to see another revival. That breaks my heart. My bass player is a big Lemmy fan and when he went to see Motorhead he said the only females were a few biker's old ladys and that was it.

We better do something, or be forever rememberd as the decade that dropped the torch.
 

Caoimhin

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I've always been told by women that Black Flag is a guys band and to tell you truth maybe shes right but I like it that way. If you got a thousand 14 yr old girl fans then you're doing something wrong.
 

Tim Fezziwig

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oh, i know gg is an extreme example, he needed to exist so that there is someone way out on that end of the curve.
"rock and roll" used to mean sex. "rock and roll music" was music that was about sex or designed to help the process along. You could dance or shake and get all excited and watch that body gyrate, and get in the mood.

The only bight colors on the horizon are white stripes, black keys and the machine gun blues. You're smart to be a duo, tim. Seems to be the in thin

we better do something, or be forever rememberd as the decade that dropped the torch.

Good work Papa! I liked GG because he had a small"cricket" and bled. I'm easy to please! I'm glad you brought up the term "Rock+Roll"!People forget that it means "gettin' it on". The great early "Rock" beat led to grinding.

I'm a duo by default. I wanted a trio but I couldn't find a bassist.I had to beg my guitar tech to play drums for me. He is a great guitarist and I will use him in that capacity in studio.I like the duo format now. It really makes my hackings seem all the more unruly.

I will try to keep the Rock torch burning. I'm 44 so I think I can still save Rock and Roll! I just need to get a gig!:dude:
 

moff40

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Brilliant summation, PapaSquash!

I'm thinking the reason the 20-something-year-old women don't want to see another revival of rock & roll is because they're afraid of being deluged with stuff that sounds like overcooked 40-year-old classic rock or an onslaught of Nickelback-like tripe - or stuff that sounds like Satanic warfare. And I can't say I blame them.

What's passed off these days as rock and roll generally sucks. R&R is supposed to be the music of the common people. It's roots are simple songs with an undeniable drive, full of clever innuendo and raw animal power, played by musicians who were NOT particularly great players. Its accessibility, simplicity, and feigned wide-eyed innocence is why Rock & Roll became so emmensely popular in the first place. After an era of squeaky clean Frankie, Annette and Pat Boone, there was finally something people could RELATE to. They sang simple songs about partying and cars and cleverly hinted at sex (still popular themes). Some of the singers gyrated their hips (Elvis) or flipped their long hair around (Jerry Lee Lewis). The audience could hear a lyric and know what was being said without the cover requiring a "Parental Advisory" sticker. They could hear an actual melody, and have it stuck in their head for days. They could hear a guitar part that was simple enough that they were inspired to pick up a guitar and learn to play, not one that scared them away by its complexity.

Well written music isn't about showing off your "mad skillz"; it's about touching peoples' souls. It doesn't matter how many or how few notes you use, or how awesome your singer or drummer is, if you can't touch people, you've got nothing. You can keep spewing sweep-picked arpeggios till the cows come home, but unless you can find a way to connect, you might as well go home. It doesn't matter if you drop tune and set your Triple Rectumfrier to "bumblebee". You might impress the mosh pit - for about 20 minutes - but fail to connect, and you're done. And that's what's happened to a LOT of modern rock - all flash and gimmick, with no emotion.

People who remember the fundamentals remain successful - The Stones still sell out stadiums, as do acts like Bon Jovi (and they haven't had a "hit" album in years). I'm not a "fan" per se of either, but I respect both for what they are. Why are they so popular? Because the music is simple, with memorable melodies, and its message touches people. It's relatable, it drives along, and is timeless. It doesn't offend in its language or content. It doesn't rely on a bunch of studio tricks and gimmicks. AND - here's the thing - the young girls like to dance to it, too. I'll guarantee you'll have more dancers for "Living on a Prayer" than anything by My Chemical Romance. "Keep It Simple, Stupid" is a very good and proven principle to live by.

With a more "back to basics" approach, rock can come back from the retirement home; but keep being self-indulgent and offensive, and it's over.

I'm having a Deja-vu. I'm certain I've posted this response or something eerily similar on this forum sometime in the past...
 

PapaSquash

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Thank you, Moff

I actually think I got the realization that female fans were the issue from a post of yours amost a year ago. Not so much that you want only, or even a majority, of female fans but you need a lot - close enough to 50/50 that pairing off at least appears to be a viable possiblity.

It's roots are simple songs with an undeniable drive, full of clever innuendo and raw animal power, played by musicians who were NOT particularly great players. Its accessibility, simplicity, and feigned wide-eyed innocence is why Rock & Roll became so emmensely popular in the first place.

I think you nailed it.
 

geochem1st

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You guys have really hit on it.....

Chuck says it all

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mNhhUCUi3A&feature=fvsr]YouTube - Chuck Berry - Little Queenie (1959)[/ame]
 

Actinic

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It's roots are simple songs with an undeniable drive, full of clever innuendo and raw animal power, played by musicians who were NOT particularly great players.

Like you said, virtuosity is greatly overrated. Weird scales, blinding fast riffs are interesting, but they get tiring. The most powerful instrument is not the guitar, but the human voice. It can carry a melody better than anything invented by engineers. When you blend it with a rock solid (primal) beat, you have quintessential, great songs that will outlive the 20th century.

"Well, I've been haunted in my sleep
You've been starring in my dreams
Lord I miss you"

...

"We're gonna come around at twelve
With some Puerto Rican girls that are just dyin' to meet you.
We're gonna bring a case of wine
Hey, let's go mess and fool around"

Fun and abandon, reminds me of the good old days. We had 'Nam and Watergate, recession after recession. And good old Mick Jagger married two of the hottest women around- Bianca Jagger and Jerry Hall. But when you fast forward to the 90's, what do you have? A hag named Courtney Love marrying Kurt Cobain, and giving him more dread than head! Some direct quotes from Love (courtesy of Wikipedia):

In a 2010 interview with NME, Love said she was "sick of talking about it". "I am not his spokesperson on Earth," she told the magazine. "I don't know what he'd be like now; he could be into society girls, he could be into fat girls, he could be homosexual. We don't know, he died at 27."

The day the music died will be traced to the dearth (diminishing number) of hot chicks who can inspire rock musicians to new heights. Sorry to say, but ladies from the baby boomer generation and before are hotter and smarter than gen X and Y females. And therein lies the answer to the question, why is rock n' roll becoming less dangerous?
 

Tim Fezziwig

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People who remember the fundamentals remain successful - The Stones still sell out stadiums, as do acts like Bon Jovi (and they haven't had a "hit" album in years). I'm not a "fan" per se of either, but I respect both for what they are. Why are they so popular? Because the music is simple, with memorable melodies, and its message touches people. It's relatable, it drives along, and is timeless. It doesn't offend in its language or content. It doesn't rely on a bunch of studio tricks and gimmicks. AND - here's the thing - the young girls like to dance to it, too. I'll guarantee you'll have more dancers for "Living on a Prayer" than anything by My Chemical Romance. "Keep It Simple, Stupid" is a very good and proven principle to live by.

With a more "back to basics" approach, rock can come back from the retirement home; but keep being self-indulgent and offensive, and it's over.
Great point. If you bring hooks prople will come! Wilco was the last band I saw live. great hook-laden R+R!
You guys have really hit on it.....

Chuck says it all

YouTube - Chuck Berry - Little Queenie (1959)
Chuck had the goods. I try to avoid Berry riffs. Only Keef can do them justice!



Like you said, virtuosity is greatly overrated. Weird scales, blinding fast riffs are interesting, but they get tiring. The most powerful instrument is not the guitar, but the human voice. It can carry a melody better than anything invented by engineers. When you blend it with a rock solid (primal) beat, you have quintessential, great songs that will outlive the 20th century.

"Well, I've been haunted in my sleep
You've been starring in my dreams
Lord I miss you"

...

"We're gonna come around at twelve
With some Puerto Rican girls that are just dyin' to meet you.
We're gonna bring a case of wine
Hey, let's go mess and fool around"

Fun and abandon, reminds me of the good old days. We had 'Nam and Watergate, recession after recession. And good old Mick Jagger married two of the hottest women around- Bianca Jagger and Jerry Hall.
Great Stuff. I love Some Girls! decadent+happy R+R. You can get laid and play MEAN guitar. Micks vocals were always so moving. He is a very under-rated singer!
 

Funky54

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I agree with everything said, I appreciate the post you guys have made. Rock N Roll should be a party. But I gotta say. I love the classic, I love to think of better days in Rock, But Guys come on. We gotta move forward to get Rock Back. To get the young ladies dancing again.

What that means is... quit downloading free. Quit staying home. Go out and look for Rock. Buy a Cd and support the Rock thats there. The Industry will follow the Money.

Go buy Rival Sons, Kings Of Leon, Suzukie Mooney, The Wild Hearts. My point is It is out there, but we have to buy it, play it, and ask for it, to get it back. I have my Thin Lizzy, Ronson, Queen and Zepplin, but thats already came and went. But new stuff has a chance. Go get some Gas Light Anthem.

Rival Sons, Black Country Communion...We need new!!! Some of the new stuff is pretty darn good. Nobody has heard most of it....thats our job...we have to be fans. I'm 40. I have been through the change of the music scene many times myself. But I'm finally over my mild depression of the loss of Rock...thats what Pandora is for. I'm buying Vinyl again and looking for CD's to purchase. I dont except mp3 or stollen music anymore. Im one little voice that nobody cares about... but its either fight for rock or have my brain explode hearing another American Idol performer impress the masses.... to painfull. I want to go to every high school and fasten unremovable head phones on every kid and force them for a week to hear good music.

I'm sick of songs about killing cops and stupid slang I dont understand. I'm real real sick of tiny bop American Idol crap.

Rival Sons is the best music I've heard in 30 years. Why is it that its not on the radio???
 

Funky54

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Another problem is when new rock does surface my generation puts it down, compares it to the best of yesterday instead of appreciating it for what it brings to the table. Musicians make fun of Kings Of Leon. They made fun of Jet...Man choose your battles. Its Rock! Its written by real people who write, play and even produce their own stuff. Think about it...we should support not tear it down. Look I never liked rush much, but if a band came out tomorrow that was good and sounded like Rush, I'd listen and support. I'd do anything to keep rock in the forfront.
 

Caoimhin

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Some new rock bands I don't think aren't too bad. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M02bAWDFkI]YouTube - The Hives - Tick Tick Boom[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8WDpQi32jk]YouTube - The Subways Rock & Roll Queen live @ Area4 2008[/ame]
 

sonar1

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$0.02 from a geezer:

I grew up in the fifties. My oldest brother had records by Elvis, Miles Davis, and The Kingston Trio.

Our parents were still listening to Swing by guys like Gene Krupa and Benny Goodman. That was the stuff they had danced to when jazz was commercially popular.

Through the fifties commercial music got homoginized into easy listening.

Rock & Roll was a fledgling affair that almost failed when Elvis got drafted, Chuck Berry got busted, and Buddy Holly died. After that the vacume was filled by tamer versions blended with pop like Bobby Darin, etc.

It all fell back into the Tin Pan Alley idea with song writers pitching songs to publishers who placed them with artists like Pat Boone.

The Beatles changed all that.

It became singer/songwriters again, and topical and protest songs had the fire. The Stones recycled the Blues into Blues based Rock, and that worked for a while, especially since the "danger" was now drugs. Clapton was the champ in both.

Commercial success breeds corporate patterns designed to move units.

Rock like I like it is pretty much over as being found in a commercially viable form, that's why Nashville Country sounds the way it does now (Line dancing still popular?).

Garth Brooks had the ladies buying his records. Secretaries at my job's office had posters of him in the lunch rooms.

Those guys are now playing the stadiums.

Here's the deal as I see it:

Those COUNTRY guys are a little dangerous now because they came late to the party of Rock&Roll as a rebellious attitude against what their community standards tried to teach: which was virginity, religion, and family values. These kids grew up listening to The Grande Olde Opry and Bluegrass as a family friendly environment.

To MY generation and after, coming from '50's/'60's America, life had MEANING because of generations of rank and file churchgoing Union workers kids rebelling about Civil Rights, War, and Status Quo, because it became meaningless when you got your chemistry degree yet couldn't find a job!

Nihilism now has convinced everybody that NOTHING really has any meaning anymore. It's all nothing.

So we can't be shocked anymore by a band telling us they're here for our minds, souls, bodies, whatever.

No meaning = nothing to rebel against because the rebellion was always against values that had meaning to somebody, and we of the Rock generation were iconoclasts. No icons: no iconoclasts.

No guts for taking a stand if nothing means anything anymore.

It's over.

That's why the longest threads are about the last remaining vestiages of meaning: honor or not on the battlefield. Life has meaning when you're dodging bullets. Otherwise, who cares?

Edit: speaking for myself here!
 

Funky54

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Heck now the "dangerous" might be to fight for some values to return. Things are not better they are worse. I still say there needs to be a party in the songs for the dancing to return. During the grunge hey day I was so sick of teenagers on accoustics, a chorus pedal crying and whinning about how bad their lives were, while wearing flanner shirts. No party to that. Yeah some 14-15 year olds related to the music and wanted to be destroyed and stay that way over their parents divorce, but if they would have listened to party songs that made them feel invincible and strong and like taking on the world, they would have been better off. Not to mention I wouldn't have had to listen to the whine.

I spent that entire period being a cheerleader saying suck it up and be a man to every whiny kid around me. Not Very Zepplin of them.
 

Tim Fezziwig

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Heck now the "dangerous" might be to fight for some values to return. Things are not better they are worse. I still say there needs to be a party in the songs for the dancing to return. During the grunge hey day I was so sick of teenagers on accoustics, a chorus pedal crying and whinning about how bad their lives were, while wearing flanner shirts. No party to that. Yeah some 14-15 year olds related to the music and wanted to be destroyed and stay that way over their parents divorce, but if they would have listened to party songs that made them feel invincible and strong and like taking on the world, they would have been better off. Not to mention I wouldn't have had to listen to the whine.

I spent that entire period being a cheerleader saying suck it up and be a man to every whiny kid around me. Not Very Zepplin of them.
AMEN FUNKY! I want to party. R+R is meant to make you move. I love Nirvanna<I thought they rocked.The "sad" kids that emulated the "dark' side
of Kurt>Why? I like Leonard Cohen and Coltranes' Ballads for rainy days. I want my ROCK charging +bright.

Never whine with an electric guitar around your neck. Put on an acoustic if you have to whine!I never went to a show to mope. R+R gets me stoked. i'm gettin pumped just writing this. I want Danger+laughs. Carnival stuff! I'm 44 and I can barely contain myself. I want to escape and bathe in ROCK! Here is some great R+R!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneYfr6ZIyM]YouTube - Neil Young - When You Dance I Can Really Dance[/ame]
 

Tim Fezziwig

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Rock & Roll was a fledgling affair that almost failed when Elvis got drafted, Chuck Berry got busted, and Buddy Holly died. After that the vacume was filled by tamer versions blended with pop like Bobby Darin, etc.

No guts for taking a stand if nothing means anything anymore.

It's over.

That's why the longest threads are about the last remaining vestiages of meaning: honor or not on the battlefield. Life has meaning when you're dodging bullets. Otherwise, who cares?

Great stuff. defeatist attitudes have ruined this country. I want to go up against the wall for something >anything. I love Old school. Take your bumps and keep comin. I use pro-wrestling from 60's to mid-80's as examples.It is "corny' stuff,but men bled for the belt. They believed in the belt. I need to play out soon. I feel like an old-time preacher. Thank you for mentioned Buddy.

As long as all of us are hear talking this jive,R+R lives. I believe in the power of what Rock could be. I know you do. Lets keep invoking the gods of Rock! Somebody has to . Here is Buddy Holly and Bob Backlund. Two great champions who never quit!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku5UeUT7yIQ]YouTube - BUDDY HOLLY - Peggy sue - Vidéo clip[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SvuqWwei0g]YouTube - Bob Backlund - Still the Greatest - Bob Backlund Wrestling Champion[/ame]
 

sonar1

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...I want to go up against the wall for something >anything. I love Old school. Take your bumps and keep comin. I use pro-wrestling from 60's to mid-80's as examples.It is "corny' stuff,but men bled for the belt. They believed in the belt. I need to play out soon. I feel like an old-time preacher...


Yeah that's because Philly is like that. My two older brothers were born in Upper Darby.
Robert Conti, Pat Martino, and lotsa good guitar players come from Philly where it still means something (long Winters)!:cool:

I remember watching Big Time Wrestling on B&W TV, out of New Hampshire (sponsored by Nashua Mobile Homes). Thanks!

By then, we lived in Schenectady (dad worked for G.E.).
 

Tim Fezziwig

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Yeah that's because Philly is like that. My two older brothers were born in Upper Darby.
Robert Conti, Pat Martino, and lotsa good guitar players come from Philly where it still means something (long Winters)!:cool:

I remember watching Big Time Wrestling on B&W TV, out of New Hampshire (sponsored by Nashua Mobile Homes). Thanks!
I was born in Morrisville Pa around 40 minutes from Philly. I now live in Bensalem which is 5 miles away. Philly seeped into my blood young. Our teams rarely won. We always played hard. My friends and I would go out to "punish' ourselves. Alot of the times we would forget about the girls and be more into suffering. Drinking Wild Turkey in the woods. Reeling and reeling. Hung-over like dogs . Start again because the Eagles were playing. My friend has the perfect Philly analogy" We are the guy that gets his ass BEAT! through bloody lips he still says F'you!"

I used to go see ECW(pro-rasslin) . They had it in a bingo hall in South Philly(viking Hall).
The wrestlers would get s'faced in parking lot with the fans. Guys got their butts kicked. We loved them for it. On the drive home we never cared who won the match. We would revel in who took the best beating. Terry Funk was there. He was 54 yrs old. He took the best beatings. We would see Terry after the matches with blood all over his face. Beautiful memories.

I'm high-jacking my own thread. I'm fired up. I'm going to see the Phillies today. Cliff Lee is piching. I digress! R+R thats what we're talking about. I should be so much better on guitar. Philly winters go on for ever. I just keep banging out surf-punk and worshipping Link Wray! I'm a sh@thead!I hope I'm a "Holy Sh@t-head'! Long live Pat Martino+Terry Funk!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7kNKDmrT20&feature=related]YouTube - PAT MARTINO sunny[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6fhU7WGTCY]YouTube - Terry Funk vs. Sabu - Better Quality - Part 2[/ame]
 

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