When Women made Gibsons.

Dolebludger

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
16,959
Reaction score
17,025
Rockstar,

I can't say that men and women are exactly the same (wouldn't want that). But as to ability to do most jobs, they are the same. And in the case of jobs requiring detailed hand work (like building and working on guitars) it may just be that most women are more qualified than men!

I mean, Gibson is building such great guitars now, right? Not!
 

Dolebludger

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
16,959
Reaction score
17,025
If women guitar makers are paid less than male counterparts, that is an issue separate from this thread topic. My only point here is that women can build guitars as well as men (or better? ). If they are paid less for the same job, I oppose that. But that is a topic (if true) for another thread.
 

LtDave32

I'm walkin' on sunshine
Super Mod
Silver Supporting Member
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
50,145
Reaction score
170,199
Check this Fender factory film from 1959, at points 4:13 to 4:55, and especially points 5:30 to 6:00



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfXt7px3rQo]Fender 1959[/ame]
 

chasenblues

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,324
Reaction score
32,292
Check this Fender factory film from 1959, at points 4:13 to 4:55, and especially points 5:30 to 6:00
Fender 1959

This lady was probably somewhere in there near the end.
(On the right)

Josefina-Campos-Abigail-Ybarra.jpg


Abigail Ybarra, Fender Pickup-Winding Legend, Retires |
 

infinitelimits

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
191
Reaction score
40
Good, as I see no reason why women would be less than excellent at this type of work. It is just suddenly I observed that the entire guitar business (from those who work at GC on up) appears male-dominated, and there is no reason it should be.

It's male dominated by choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to work where they don't want to. I personally know MANY female guitarists, musicians, and store employees who are female. They LOVE their jobs and are happy as ever. And they aren't paid "less". They are paid the same for the same job at that store in my experience. There are many famous female producers and studio executives ... if you aren't aware. :)

I've seen many women work in the Gibson factory simply by watching several DVDs and tours. Like probably half/half male female. Yes, they operate the machines, set up the guitars, and paint just as men do.

There isn't any gender issue here IMO. Granted, there are differences but everyone is has super unique characteristics that transcend all these superficial labels i.e. race/gender/color etc... It's all about loving your craft and playing music. That's it. It's so powerful, ya know...Music affects generations to come. :dude:
 

rockstar232007

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
18,113
Reaction score
16,692
It's male dominated by choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to work where they don't want to. I personally know MANY female guitarists, musicians, and store employees who are female. They LOVE their jobs and are happy as ever. And they aren't paid "less". They are paid the same for the same job at that store in my experience. There are many famous female producers and studio executives ... if you aren't aware. :)

I've seen many women work in the Gibson factory simply by watching several DVDs and tours. Like probably half/half male female. Yes, they operate the machines, set up the guitars, and paint just as men do.

There isn't any gender issue here IMO. Granted, there are differences but everyone is has super unique characteristics that transcend all these superficial labels i.e. race/gender/color etc... It's all about loving your craft and playing music. That's it. It's so powerful, ya know...Music affects generations to come. :dude:
This.

Also, something many people (especially the "feminists") fail to realize is, there are a LOT of women, particularly of this generation (millenials) who have zero interest in most labor-intensive jobs. Hell, it's hard to find men to do a lot of jobs.

So, the bottom line is, though I agree that sexism is a problem in a lot of cases, the real reason some women aren't progressing has, IMHO, less to do with "double-standards", and more to do with "lack of interest".
 

ZWILDZR1

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
1,775
Why would that surprise anyone? Men went to war and they needed workers. But when the war was over the ladies gave up the jobs so the men returning could have the jobs back. Now that sucks. But they did so anyway. I watched a bunch of those several months ago and they were very interesting including the old retired Gibson workers from Kalamazoo get together for reunions and to catch up with one another. There was another video of a woman who works from home doing engraving that Gibson sends to her and then she ships them back. In the video she showed a guitar that Gibson made for her. All the workers are very proud to have worked for Gibson. Many retired in the early 80's instead of relocating choosing to stay in Kalamazoo. I don't blame them one bit I didn't want to leave my home ether. These people are the reason Gibson was great. :applause:
 

Lampens

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
4,347
The binding scrapers are women and are most masterful at that delicate craft.

Yeah. I saw this in the Gibson plant in Memphis. The tourguide told us that men did work in that position but they always ended up doing something else rather quick. Maybe fine motorskills or eye for detail are more a trait for women?
 

LPJNoob

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,618
Reaction score
1,145
Interesting thread. You would think that in 2015 we'd be past this. There are women members of this forum too. *gasp*

I tell you what, I'm really digging the fact that there are some quality female players out there. Not just a mans sport or interest anymore.
 

Bill Hicklin

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
13,704
Reaction score
28,534
Of course, during the war Gibson wasn't building many guitars; only about 9000 "Banners" in total. Since they were a woodworking plant, most of their effort went to building landing skids for Army gliders, and the electronics department made sub-assemblies for radars.

-------------------------

One thing that stands out in all these interviews, though, is how nearly all of these Kalamazoo oldimers describe it as a nice place to work and how much they enjoyed it---- hear that, Henry?
 

Roberteaux

Super Mod
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
33,750
Reaction score
157,642
Of course, during the war Gibson wasn't building many guitars; only about 9000 "Banners" in total. Since they were a woodworking plant, most of their effort went to building landing skids for Army gliders, and the electronics department made sub-assemblies for radars.

QFT

It's also the case that a sizable percentage of the female workforce to be found in various factories and so forth during the war weren't exactly thrilled to have been pressed into that sort of service to begin with.

That whole "Rosie the Riveter" propaganda effort was aimed at keeping the largely female workforce aware of the fact that the reason they were so employed had to do with the survival of the country.

Prior to that period in history, there were indeed traditional female professions of various types, but the majority of public members tended to think that simply being a housewife was an honorable enough pursuit, and necessary to the well-being of the children. Until the economy tanked in the Sixties, it was generally the case that a single earner was capable of financing a family and household. Dual-income families were not the norm, until considerably later in time.

And it was when it became necessary for both heads of a household to work, I might add, that the whole women's lib thing got to be really shrill. That is, once females in the workplace found their pay and salaries to be undercut in comparison to that of their male co-workers, and discovered the so-called "glass ceiling", they started to become really irate. Despite all the sociological complaints that were made by the movement (both justly and unjustly) the most bitter complaints were-- and probably still are-- about money. The bra burning and things like today's "top free equal rights" movements were simply sideshows compared to the big thing: who is gonna call the shots, and who is gonna rake in the big bucks?

Which is all to say that it's not as if a bunch of female master luthiers were displaced from their beloved craft by evil male oppressors or something, the way a more simplistic observer would tend to interpret the circumstances of the event as having consisted of. A lot of women were more than happy to get back to the business of child rearing and home making, and the mores of the times suggested that this really was to the betterment of those children that came in such a huge gush as part of the Baby Boom.

Not willing to argue this point, but I've noted that various sociologists have speculated that the virtual necessity (in most cases) of having a dual-income household hasn't always worked out well for the children of such unions. There was a great deal of concern over the so-called "latch key kids", along with equally negative observations regarding children who more or less "grow up on the street", and its effect on society that quite a few of them actually do so.

And so day care has turned into a sort of racket, featuring exorbitant costs, a sliding scale of competency and so forth.

Not that I'm championing anything one way or the other here. No matter what human beings do, there's gonna be a lot of negative results as a consequence of their doings.

--R
 

Sinster

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
11,780
Reaction score
8,664
well, they weren't really luthiers or techs the same way people who work in auto assembly lines aren't really mechanics.

I watched a video on youtube a while back where they interviewed some of the women who worked there (so I wouldnt really call it a discovery) but I cant find it.

found the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z3AH7XeWXc

Well this video was uploaded May 2015 and the interview was a month later.. I would still say it's a discovery.
 

infinitelimits

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
191
Reaction score
40
This.

Also, something many people (especially the "feminists") fail to realize is, there are a LOT of women, particularly of this generation (millenials) who have zero interest in most labor-intensive jobs. Hell, it's hard to find men to do a lot of jobs.

... more to do with "lack of interest".

Yup. Different strokes for different folks. Always been that way and should always be that way as we humans have choice capacity and should be able to nurture our own interests and creativities.

Naturally it's just more common that certain genders lend themselves to certain interests and field subjects. It ultimately comes down to the individual.
 

Latest Threads



Top