When it's time to cut a venue off...

[The_Sentry]

My trip to see Roman in Shasta was eventful. I spent some time talking to Stephen (aka 180jROC) about some stuff I'm dealing with.

Anyway...as a few of you know...I lost my band, but I didn't give up on gigging...I developed an acoustic act which turned into a full on open jam. It's been doing good business. Now...there's this venue I've been working at (and where I developed the act)....when I started, I knew they weren't going to pay anything, and I'd have to be reliant upon tips to get any sort of scratch. I was cool with that...as long as I made gas money.

Well, after New Year's I started scaling back from the place after they had a tremendous turnout and I made...a whopping total of 26 dollars after playing for 5 solid hours. At that time I was gigging twice a week, and I scaled it down to once a week....with the explanation that I was wearing out the gig playing that much there.

Now I'm thinking about cutting them off altogether. Big reason....I was told that when things turned around, they'd start paying their musicians...not just me, but ANYONE who went in there to play. I've watched the show turnouts get bigger, and bigger, and bigger....

And still...no paybacks.

I think last Friday cut it for me. During this time I put together a promotions firm with an old bandmate of mine that emphasized...acoustic punk rock acts. We did our first show at their venue. The turnout was so big....they couldn't even fit everyone in there for STANDING ROOM ONLY to watch the show. A lot of people were relegated to stay outside.

Now, the venue has that kind of show (packed wall to wall with a bunch of people hellbent on getting wasted)...and they didn't pay my buddy (who did a lot of work to put the show together) a single dime. Nothing, nada. I've already made overtures to have it moved to another venue.

Compounding this...Lately? Every time I've been there the owner's been blazed out of his mind. Well, not blazed (everyone handles "smoking" a bit differently)...but I know at least a couple of times a night he's partaking in a certain...recreation he enjoys. Now, I don't mind burners, but if someone's gonna be doin' THAT (and I have to assume they're doin' it at home too...and at the club..and in his case...at a wine cellar)...this just smacks of hypocricy, ie "Well, damn man...you've got enough money to buy chronic to smoke day and night but you can't afford to pay anyone who's bringing business into your venue?"

WTF ever.

Plus, I've gotten some bad juju there. Either way...when I started this I took a drug dealer 101 approach to the music. I'd get my name out there, and when the signs were right, I'd cut 'em off and start asking for money.

I'm at this point with these people. TBH I have 2 other venues I can do my show at which DO pay. And at some point you have to look at someone, understand that they're disrespectful of you, and what you're doing, and just move on.

Thoughts?

 

[Tozatron]

I wouldn't stand for it. Move on.

 

[The_Sentry]

I wouldn't stand for it. Move on.

Yeah, Hate to do it. But it's time.

 

[Skintaster]

I'd move on. The owners sound like tools.

 

[Tuya Customs]

I say f*ck 'em. That guy is just a greedy prick. If your talents warrant pay (which obviously they do) then tell him to go screw himself. I'd ask him once more next time you're going to play if he denies then during the show plug the next venue you're playing at which would be a big middle finger to him.

 

[The_Sentry]

I say f*ck 'em. That guy is just a greedy prick. If your talents warrant pay (which obviously they do) then tell him to go screw himself. I'd ask him once more next time you're going to play if he denies then during the show plug the next venue you're playing at which would be a big middle finger to him.

Tuya, I don't think he'd get it. Every time he's talked to me it's been "Oh yeah, I'm so behind the 8 ball, and I'm trying to get my Winery going, and we're so behind and blah blah blah." Everyone I've talked to that's known him and his wife have stated pretty plainly they're piss poor business people. And, it's not just me...but NO ONE who goes in there is getting paid.

I've done a lot to raise the notoriety of the venue...I think at this point it won't hit him through his haze until I take most of his top talent and draws away to other venues.

It ain't cool to mess with the Local Pied Piper.

 

[Phoenix59]

It is time, Grasshopper. Lead the people to greener pastures.

 

[Jakeislove]

Reads like it's time to move on.

 

[muddywinter]

I'd move on a establishment that gets enough business should be paying the bands 250 to 300 a night if not don't play for them again unless you are good friends

 

[Rich]

I have 2 other venues I can do my show at which DO pay.

Do you really need help with this? Not trying to be a smartass but the other places pay and the one you're complaining about doesn't. Doesn't seem like a tough decision to me.

 

[The_Sentry]

Do you really need help with this? Not trying to be a smartass but the other places pay and the one you're complaining about doesn't. Doesn't seem like a tough decision to me.

It's not a tough decision. The only thing I'm really wondering about is how diplomatic should I frame the reason for bailing to the owners (Will they really understand? I doubt it.), and what are the best ways I can take/steal some of his top talent with me to the other venues.

At the end of the day...I still live in a small town. It's a great music community, but what affects one of us affects a whole bunch of us.

Side note...I've been running a fundraiser for a while to raise money for a local musician who needed a new banjo (the one he has...he fished out of the dumpster.)...I came close to my target for fundraising to the point where I can deliver the money tomorrow..and conclude the fundraiser...this is all going to go down...tomorrow night....

(And I wonder if I should tell them BEFORE I start, when I'm done, or just blow them off....I'm kinda leanin' to "before" I start.)

 

[andy007]

Even though the owner has been a prick, it's probably best to be as professional as possible about moving on. I know I've burned bridges I never thought I'd need in the future and yeas later I regretted it. Sometimes it feels so good to see those bridges going up in flames and knowing you threw the match on it. Figure out a way to be professional about it and try not to focus on the hard feelings.

 

[Nightrain]

I'd tell them before you start, that way you can mention the crowd you've managed to cultivate along with the other acts.. and, if it is a small town and no one gets paid there, it shouldn't take long for news to spread that there is a place that pays and that a few of the musicians have already gone there?

 

[Joeydego]

You made a few mistakes. Mistake one was agreeing to play for free. Outside of a benefit, NEVER. You're essentially telling him "my art is worth NOTHING". You opened that door, and now he's walking right thru it. Your art is worth money. Don't just give away the store. Mistake 2 is playing without a performance contract. Anyone serious about hosting and subsequently paying you should have no problems signing a piece of paper that says "I come play, you pay me XYZ $$$". Follow these 2 rules you'll never get screwed again.

 

[floyd84]

Yup, beat feet

 

[The_Sentry]

You made a few mistakes. Mistake one was agreeing to play for free. Outside of a benefit, NEVER. You're essentially telling him "my art is worth NOTHING". You opened that door, and now he's walking right thru it. Your art is worth money. Don't just give away the store. Mistake 2 is playing without a performance contract. Anyone serious about hosting and subsequently paying you should have no problems signing a piece of paper that says "I come play, you pay me XYZ $$$". Follow these 2 rules you'll never get screwed again.

I hear ya. As stated...I took the drug dealer approach to it...give out samples, get people hooked and when it came time to make hay, cut 'em off and watch 'em go into withdrawals.

This isn't the big city. No one will sign contracts up here. (Hell, at is is it's tough just getting people to show up here if there's a cover charge at the door. Small towns are like that.)

Even though the owner has been a prick, it's probably best to be as professional as possible about moving on. I know I've burned bridges I never thought I'd need in the future and yeas later I regretted it. Sometimes it feels so good to see those bridges going up in flames and knowing you threw the match on it. Figure out a way to be professional about it and try not to focus on the hard feelings.

That is preferable.

I don't want to burn bridges in the community at large...and for some people...well, crap, that's the only place that'll take 'em. I've been wondering about this...I think to be honest I'm just going to tell them that I need a break due to exhaustion (which is partially true...alongside the fundraiser, I played 4 shows last week, I did a recording session...and 8+ hours in a car to get up to Shasta to hook up with Roman over the Workhorse...I'm beat..and a lot of my weeks recently have had a schedule although not quite as brutal...close to it! I also work full-time ), and if the question of other venues comes up...then at that point I WILL mention that they're paying me to do the shows there...and let them take that however they like it. (I can't think of a more diplomatic way to do it...)

 

[180gROC]

When I heard about the owners daughter asking if your next fundraiser could be for her tires I was peeved. When you told me about the racist comedy act that got interjected I was leaning heavily but then when you told me about filling the place to overflowed without anyone getting paid while the owner absorbs recreational drug use as a business expense, I was done.

I would tell them after, myself. diplomatically, being as it's a small town and all.

They did serve a purpose. They were a stepping stone in your recent path. To not have had it may have left you with muddy feet.

 

[The_Sentry]

When I heard about the owners daughter asking if your next fundraiser could be for her tires I was peeved. When you told me about the racist comedy act that got interjected I was leaning heavily but then when you told me about filling the place to overflowed without anyone getting paid while the owner absorbs recreational drug use as a business expense, I was done.

I would tell them after, myself. diplomatically, being as it's a small town and all.

They did serve a purpose. They were a stepping stone in your recent path. To not have had it may have left you with muddy feet.

True dat.

Well, you definitely convinced me it's time to move on. I don't think as far as this decision goes, it can *KNOT* be denied!

 

[moff40]

You made a few mistakes. Mistake one was agreeing to play for free. Outside of a benefit, NEVER. You're essentially telling him "my art is worth NOTHING". You opened that door, and now he's walking right thru it. Your art is worth money. Don't just give away the store. Mistake 2 is playing without a performance contract. Anyone serious about hosting and subsequently paying you should have no problems signing a piece of paper that says "I come play, you pay me XYZ $$$". Follow these 2 rules you'll never get screwed again.

I hear ya. As stated...I took the drug dealer approach to it...give out samples, get people hooked and when it came time to make hay, cut 'em off and watch 'em go into withdrawals.

This isn't the big city. No one will sign contracts up here. (Hell, at is is it's tough just getting people to show up here if there's a cover charge at the door. Small towns are like that.)



That is preferable.

I don't want to burn bridges in the community at large...and for some people...well, crap, that's the only place that'll take 'em. I've been wondering about this...I think to be honest I'm just going to tell them that I need a break due to exhaustion (which is partially true...alongside the fundraiser, I played 4 shows last week, I did a recording session...and 8+ hours in a car to get up to Shasta to hook up with Roman over the Workhorse...I'm beat..and a lot of my weeks recently have had a schedule although not quite as brutal...close to it! I also work full-time ), and if the question of other venues comes up...then at that point I WILL mention that they're paying me to do the shows there...and let them take that however they like it. (I can't think of a more diplomatic way to do it...)

I can see doing a show or two as a "showcase" to prove to the potential employer (or agents) that your act is worth hiring - I think we've all done it. But once or twice should be your limit, and the owner needs to know that you'll do x number of shows for free, but after that it's going to cost $y, per man, per night. You don't need to do the same thing anywhere else - if a new venue wants to see if you're worth it, tell them to check with the other club. Although you could potentially make a ton of money from it, avoid working for the door (or a portion of it), unless you can have YOUR OWN PERSON working the door and counting heads and cash - too many scumbags out there will try to tell you after you've played to a full room that there was only a fraction of that number, and plenty of door staff who'll just pocket the admission themselves.

Walk, and walk right now. This club has an owner who obviously doesn't intend to pay you (and is preoccupied with his substance abuse issues, anyway - do you really want to work for a crackhead?). Tell him why you're leaving, and that you'll be taking your show to his competition. If he wants to keep the revenue you bring in, he'll make good. Sometimes though, these guys need to see that NOT having you there hurts business, so he'll need to have a few weeks of your absence to see it.

When he calls to get you back, let him know that you have specific expectations in terms of hours and pay, and you're not coming back under any other circumstances.

 

[GitFiddle]

I agree with JoeyDego. I know this is music, but its still business. You are providing a service for a fee. If they can't provide the fee you don't provide the service. I don't think the beer man stocks their coolers for a "far out thanks man", he has an invoice and a bill that needs to be paid or no beer.

You should be up front right from the start and follow-up with a simple contract that states your performance date and the times to begin and end and an agreed fee. If they can't honor that you are wasting your time and he is wasting his business.

Any new venues, I would approach the same way. "I'll do one or two shows for the door or free and after that it I will charge $xxx for every performance thereafter."

Even if its a small town, a club owner is running a business and will respect and appreciate someone who is dealing with them straight up in a business like manner.

My band had a run in with a similar club situation. We showed up for an agreed upon gig, and they said that we weren't booked for that night. The owner kept his schedules on cocktail napkins. He said he must have forgotten to write it on his calendar. They had us go ahead and play anyway and we got paid. Then when we were booked at a following gig a couple weeks later, they called us the day of the gig to tell us they had double booked that night and they were going with the other band. We quit booking that club completely.