What's the difference between Burst Buckers and Custom Buckers ?

[ErictheRed]

On one of my LPs, 2016 WIne Red Standard HP, I have the stock BB Pros. I was reasonably unsatisfied with them. Prior to swapping them out, I took them to a well known locial luthier to have a full setup. When I showed back up to pick it up, I found him in the back, at his bench, with a little crowd of musicians all ooh'ing and ahh'ing over my guitar. he was getting the tones I had been looking for. Turns out it is not the pickups at all--apparently it is ME!

Well not necessarily you, but in my experience you can get a pretty wide range of tones out of the same pickup by making slight adjustments in height and pole pieces, not to mention changing potentiometer or capacitor values. Often the tones are there, they just need to be unlocked.

 

[NotScott]

Well not necessarily you, but in my experience you can get a pretty wide range of tones out of the same pickup by making slight adjustments in height and pole pieces, not to mention changing potentiometer or capacitor values. Often the tones are there, they just need to be unlocked.

This!

I have been through my share of boutiques, from the current flavor of the month guys to the old school guys who were winding before many of the current guys were even around and it has been a very rare occurrence where I couldn't get a useable tone out of any pup, stock or boutique, with just a few minor tweaks.

What I have experienced when trying out pups is that I would get used to an amp setup with a particular pup and when changing pups, those particular amp settings that sound great with one set, sound like azz with another set. And as mentioned before, what may sound great in your bedroom or studio, may not be so special when cranked up on a stage and trying to fit in a mix.

Assuming your pups are suitable for your style (i.e. not using unpotted PAF types to play doom metal) spending time with any pups and being willing to experiment with settings will always yield the best results and get you in the game. Changing pups are useful for those that know exactly what they need and want and can appreciate the finer details offered by any pickup set.

 

[lassie]

One thing to recognize is that not all custom buckers are created "equal." I own four Les Pauls with Custom Buckers -- a 2013 '54 Oxblood Benchmark series, and three different Collectors Choice guitars--all outfitted with pickups labeled "Custom Buckers". The "Custom Buckers" that they used in each model, however, were produced to model the guitar being replicated. I.e., the spec for the Custom Buckers in the Dutchburst (CC18) are rather different from those in the STP Burst (CC28) which are closer to those in the Waddy Wachtel (CC14).

In fact a created a spreadsheet where I've been collecting anecdotal pickup readings from owners for the last couple years. You can view it here. The first tab identifiers all the CC models. Then there are tabs for each model for which I've collected readings. You'll not a couple things. First, there is generally some consistency within a given model. If you look at the Shanks (CC7) model, for example, you'll note that neck is generally hotter than the bridge and the range of readings is relatively consistent. Now compare that to say the Waddy Wachtecl (CC14) and you'll note that the pickups are lower output and there's virtually no difference between the neck and the bridge.

And on the '54 Oxblood Benchmark guitars, the Custom Buckers were explicitly underwound "by 20%." So, the point is...not all Custom Buckers are created equal.

Personally, the CBs I like best are low output...I've never heard humbuckers with greater clarity and more great responsiveness than these low output CBs, with the exception of one or two pairs of actual PAFs (and not all the PAFs I've heard sound all that great...definitely a wide range of variability there).

How do you know that many of the CC guitars have Burstbucker? The Minnesota Burst for example is listed with a BB in the neck position and Alnico III magnet. In fact, the Minnesota Burst and the Shanks CC had the clearest neck pickup sound of any LP that I’ve owned (yes, even clearer than guitars with boutique PAF clones like Throbak, BKP, Wizz or OX4). I do like both BB and CB, I think they are better than their reputation on forums. They have a narrower frequency response like the above mentioned pickups, but this keeps your guitar from getting muddy, but can sound thin/harsh at times.

 

[GermHerm]

Here are my 2 Euro-cents.
I have BBs, CBs (potted, unpotted), Bareknukles 'The Mule' and 'Montys of London' in use. Which guitars: CCs, Skinnerburst, 60th Anniv. R9, Flying V.
They are all good. It needs tweaking (PU height and(!) Pole pieces). If your PUs sound harsh bring them a little nearer to the strings and play with the Pole pieces. Please keep also in mind that the magnets play an important role. Also, whether the PUs are potted (stray capacities) or not. In my 60th Anniv. I have changed the Alll bridge magnet to a AVI magnet (nice). There are many possible tweakings to led the PU sound good. This is 'true' for all a/m PU.

 

[DBDM]

This!

I have for years preached that every well made guitar is a good setup away from sounding great. But it was not until it happened to me that I REALLY became a believer! That is, for the record, WHY I took it in for a setup. But I was totally blown away by the results. Fast forward 18 months and my 17 year old has totally commandeered that LP and now is reluctant to even let me touch it. In his vocabulary it is "his". He keeps it in his bedroom and not with the other guitars in our house. In reality I am happy he loves it and happy to let it be "his". I am overjoyed that he not only plays guitar, but that he loves LPs, AND he loves classic rock!

 

[DBDM]

Fast forward 18 months and my 17 year old has totally commandeered that LP and now is reluctant to even let me touch it. In his vocabulary it is "his".

His second favorite guitar and number one player is a pawn shop "Tele" that is a real Fender Esquire neck with an unknown Esquire style body. Someone crudely cut the pickguard to accommodate the neck pickup. It has one Bill Lawrence pickup in the bridge and one unknown humbucking pickup in the neck. A true Franken-esquire-tele. I have had it evaluated by George Gruhn (who is a friend and former neighbor) and neither George nor all the guys working there could identify what I really have. I got it for nearly nothing at a pawn shop and purchased it without playing it. The reason I picked it up was how worn it was. Someone really played the $&@* out of it. Those always catch my eye! When we got it home and plugged it in, it was fairly obvious why someone had played it SO much. It sounds awesome. Strange that a guitar with 2 humbuckers can still sound so much like a Tele, and with a few turns of the knobs and selecting pickups sounds ALL Les Paul! He will not change the strings or let me change them. Only Gruhn's is allowed to touch it (according to him)! Kind of funny because it almost looks like the previous owner dragged it behind his car on the way to gigs! My 17 year old claims the Esquire (styled Tele) is the guitar he will take to college with him. Maybe then I can play "his" LP.

I dont have a great photo of the whole guitar but I do have one of the "unique" pickup configuration. The bridge is a bill Lawrence, no idea what the neck zebra pickup is. Hard to see but someone just cut a hole in the old pickguard and installed that zebra humbucker.

 

[efstop]

I wonder if Gibson calls those pickups Custom Buckers because they are customized for each application, and are not necessarily designed to be all the same.

 

[DBDM]

I wonder if Gibson calls those pickups Custom Buckers because they are customized for each application, and are not necessarily designed to be all the same.

That is my understanding. Issue is, one could write a whole book about the use of the word "Custom" at Gibson. The original 50's LP custom, Custom Shop (which for a time did not make the Custom), Standard Custom, Custom Standard, Studio Customs, Custom Studios, Custom Custom (none of which are actually "custom made"), Custombuckers (which actually ARE custom made for each application), etc. When Gibson actually decided to start making "custom built" guitars--they certainly could not use the word "custom" instead calling them "Made to Measure". "Custom" is a diverse word at Gibson to say the least!

 

[DADGAD]

I wonder if Gibson calls those pickups Custom Buckers because they are customized for each application, and are not necessarily designed to be all the same.

Probably more to identify them as Custom Shop pickups and not the USA line pickups. That’s my guess. But your thoughts on it are definitely possible too.

 

[Classicplayer]

It has become custom for Gibson to use the word “custom“ to customarily describe guitars that are not anything that we would customarily come to think are specially designed for their customers; who have become quite accustomed to expect that their guitars will not really fit the mold of a special custom-designed product. Therefore your Honor, I move to dismiss this case dismissed.

Classicplayer

 

[efstop]

It has become custom for Gibson to use the word “custom“ to customarily describe guitars that are not anything that we would customarily come to think are specially designed for their customers; who have become quire accustomed to expect that their guitars will not really fit the mold of a special custom-designed product. Therefore your Honor, I move to dismiss this case.

Classicplayer

But without the case, the headstocks will break, as is the custom with poorly cared for Gibsons.

Ford Customs, on the other hand, were the barest of bone stock autos.

 

[LeonC]

How do you know that many of the CC guitars have Burstbucker? The Minnesota Burst for example is listed with a BB in the neck position and Alnico III magnet. In fact, the Minnesota Burst and the Shanks CC had the clearest neck pickup sound of any LP that I’ve owned (yes, even clearer than guitars with boutique PAF clones like Throbak, BKP, Wizz or OX4). I do like both BB and CB, I think they are better than their reputation on forums. They have a narrower frequency response like the above mentioned pickups, but this keeps your guitar from getting muddy, but can sound thin/harsh at times.

To be clear, I didn't say "many" CC guitars have Burstbuckers. What I said was:

And in face, Gibson used some stock pickups (typically burst buckers) on a few of the CCs because they said the BBs sounded on target when compared to the original

Specifically, the models that were speced with Burst Buckers were:
#2 Goldie
#5 Donna
#8 The Beast
#16 Redeye (neck position only)
#17 Louis (again, neck position only)
#24 Nicky
#37 Carmelita
#39 Minnesota (again, neck position only)

One or two models feature other Gibson pickups and one features DiMarzios! But that said...most of the CCs were still speced with Custom Buckers of various sorts.

 

[Dazza]

I wonder if Gibson calls those pickups Custom Buckers because they are customized for each application, and are not necessarily designed to be all the same.

Initially the term Custom Bucker referred to pickups made just for a particular Signature or CC run. After 2014 CB'c became the next development of modern Gibson PAF after 57's and BB's as stock issue in R's, plus there have been several derivatives since all falling under the same heading.

The OP asked for the difference between BBs and CB's - which is the wind and magnet as posted on the 1st page. Then we've detoured for 2 pages into comparisons and preferences against other pickups. I'm not sure the OP even follows any longer hehe. All good fun this innit ! I do miss chatting with other musos.

Daz

 

[cooljuk]

Maybe when a spool of wire runs out mid-wind on a coil, they throw that bobbin in a bin labeled "Offset Coils For Custom Buckers."

 

[Classicplayer]

Maybe when a spool of wire runs out mid-wind on a coil, they throw that bobbin in a bin labeled "Offset Coils For Custom Buckers."

I like the way you think.

Classicplayer

 

[NotScott]

I remember when the CCs came out and the tone reports of all the guitars were all over the place, and the usual cast of characters telling everyone that CBs were jus BBs with different magnets and that Gibson would never spend any extra effort on tuning CBs for CCs. I don't recall who collected the measurements on the CCs and posted them here, but after the whiners disappeared from the board, it was readily apparent that the CBs used in CCs were tweaked to better match the guitars they were trying to emulate.

I was a Fender guy long before I was a Gibson guy, and I remember these same arguments on the Fender boards, OEM sucks, boutique good. I am glad I trust my ears now more than what I read on the internet.

 

[LeonC]

I remember when the CCs came out and the tone reports of all the guitars were all over the place, and the usual cast of characters telling everyone that CBs were jus BBs with different magnets and that Gibson would never spend any extra effort on tuning CBs for CCs. I don't recall who collected the measurements on the CCs and posted them here, but after the whiners disappeared from the board, it was readily apparent that the CBs used in CCs were tweaked to better match the guitars they were trying to emulate.

I was a Fender guy long before I was a Gibson guy, and I remember these same arguments on the Fender boards, OEM sucks, boutique good. I am glad I trust my ears now more than what I read on the internet.

Yeah, that was me

 

[NotScott]

Yeah, that was me

Thanks for that work. I remember when I contributed there were a few posters giving you grief for your efforts and saying it was pointless. I am glad you stuck with it.

 

[AcVox]

Initially the term Custom Bucker referred to pickups made just for a particular Signature or CC run. After 2014 CB'c became the next development of modern Gibson PAF after 57's and BB's as stock issue in R's, plus there have been several derivatives since all falling under the same heading.

The OP asked for the difference between BBs and CB's - which is the wind and magnet as posted on the 1st page. Then we've detoured for 2 pages into comparisons and preferences against other pickups. I'm not sure the OP even follows any longer hehe. All good fun this innit ! I do miss chatting with other musos.

Daz

I'm the op, and I love the way a thread takes on a life of its own independent of whoever starts it.

 

[freddy78]

IMO pups are just one part of the equation , all will sound similar if the basic recipe is followed and some voicing changes are done with the magnet type and how much its charged.
for me the amp , speakers and the volume that i paly make the most difference, at low volumes it relay doesn't matter if you have real PAF , best boutique PAF , CB or BB all will sound roughly the same . in 99% of the cases its also the psychological effect something more expensive is better than what i have and will deliver the desired tone .