What's the difference between Burst Buckers and Custom Buckers ?

[AcVox]

My takeaway so far, is that it seems likely, based on this thread and other resources that Gibson now have the ability to modify Custom Bucker characteristics to aid in the recreation of the tone of the Les Paul being reproduced at the custom shop..
Does this, in your opinion seem a reasonable conclusion ??

 

[DADGAD]

From discussions with someone in the know, they do seem to taylor the pickups to get a general interpretation of the tone. They aren’t that lazy where they just change magnets in existing pickups, although it wouldn’t surprise me during the Henry J era.

They did go through great lengths to reproduce the look and feel of the artist guitars so it wouldn’t be a great leap to try a bit harder and wind some different pickups.

 

[ReWind James]

My takeaway so far, is that it seems likely, based on this thread and other resources that Gibson now have the ability to modify Custom Bucker characteristics to aid in the recreation of the tone of the Les Paul being reproduced at the custom shop..
Does this, in your opinion seem a reasonable conclusion ??

I think if they were doing that intentionally, they would be marketing it heavily. I also think they would do a better job. They just put A3s in every artist build, for a long time. Clapton, Page, etc. Just A3s.

 

[ErictheRed]

Is it confirmed that Custombuckers are all Alnico 3? I've read conflicting information.

In any case, the Custombuckers in my R9 are the best sounding humbuckers that I've ever owned, though I've never moved them from that guitar so can't make direct comparisons between pickups in the same guitar. I've never liked 57 Classics much for whatever reason. I generally like Burstbuckers that come in Standards quite a lot, but there is just something "interesting" in my Custombuckers. The neck pickup especially has an extremely vocal quality to it that's hard to describe. I have a project guitar that I've been messing around with and have tried various neck pickups in, but nothing I do gives as interesting and pleasing a sound as my R9 neck pickup.

The bridge Custombucker is bright, but in a Les Paul you've got independent tone controls, so I generally run my neck tone on 10 and bridge on 6 and it's fine. It definitely helps at higher volumes to be able to turn the tone up a bit to cut through when you want.

I haven't tried nearly as many different pickups as some people have, but my Custombuckers are the best humbuckers I've ever used, IMHO of course.

 

[ReWind James]

Is it confirmed that Custombuckers are all Alnico 3? I've read conflicting information.

I don't know. I doubt they all are, from what I hear, but I don't take detailed measurements or really study modern pickups. That's not what I was inferring in my statment, though. I was commenting on the signature Les Paul models that Gibson released and advertised the pickups as having A3 magnets, many quite inappropriate for the guitars they were "replicating."

I the case of what I mentioned earlier in the thread, about the Custombuckers sounding different from one to the next, I was not talking about the pickups sounding different in different guitars. I was talking about having multiple Custombuckers here at the same time that were supposed to be the same pickups, and they sounded quite different in the same guitar.

I've never known if Gibson has changed the design of their Custombuckers over time, or if they are just made with loose tolerances, but they definitely sound all over the place. Ya know, in a way, that's actually the most accurate to a PAF they have ever gotten, as you don't really know what you are getting until you hear them. lol!

 

[Dazza]

Is it confirmed that Custombuckers are all Alnico 3? I've read conflicting information.

As I wrote earlier in this thread I had an AV zebra set. They came from a 2014 Sweetwater CS Flying V and years later when attempting to sell them I had to find the original ad to prove they existed. I also found similar period ads for other AV and 4 conductor Gibson pickups that came under the 'Custombucker' label. Though of course there's no official Gibson literature on any of these through their site, which was less than helpful !

The Page / Kossoff / Beano / early CC's and Sigs CB's were the 1st I recall seeing an AIII in a PAF type. The result having a 'clarity' over prior types. Plenty of this discussed in old threads. As good as CB's can be they're missing complexity found in boutique pickups. I'm fortunate to have Historics with examples of each that satisfy me though.

Daz

 

[ErictheRed]

As I wrote earlier in this thread I had an AV zebra set. They came from a 2014 Sweetwater CS Flying V and years later when attempting to sell them I had to find the original ad to prove they existed. I also found similar period ads for other AV and 4 conductor Gibson pickups that came under the 'Custombucker' label. Though of course there's no official Gibson literature on any of these through their site, which was less than helpful !

The Page / Kossoff / Beano / early CC's and Sigs CB's were the 1st I recall seeing an AIII in a PAF type. The result having a 'clarity' over prior types. Plenty of this discussed in old threads. As good as CB's can be they're missing complexity found in boutique pickups. I'm fortunate to have Historics with examples of each that satisfy me though.

Daz

I dunno about the boutique pickups comment, I've owned Bare Knuckle Mules, Emeralds, True Grits, Nailbombs, and Holydivers, and Suhr SSV, SSV+, and SSH+, as well as others from Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio. That's certainly not as many different pickups as some people have tried, but my Custombuckers are by far the most complex sounding that I've tried. At some point, I always end up A/Bing my other humbuckers to the R9 as a sort of gold standard, and the R9 is always more complex. Some of that could be the guitar itself though, I admit; I've never taken them out.

 

[CoolRene]

To me, it's day & night... BB are harsh as CB are sweet. Exceptionally, you might stumble upon better BB's: 2's, 3's and Pros', but you won't get the flexibility of a low output, unpotted, uneven pickup. That's my 2¢...

 

[Dazza]

I dunno about the boutique pickups comment, I've owned Bare Knuckle Mules, Emeralds, True Grits, Nailbombs, and Holydivers, and Suhr SSV, SSV+, and SSH+, as well as others from Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio. That's certainly not as many different pickups as some people have tried, but my Custombuckers are by far the most complex sounding that I've tried. At some point, I always end up A/Bing my other humbuckers to the R9 as a sort of gold standard, and the R9 is always more complex. Some of that could be the guitar itself though, I admit; I've never taken them out.

Compared to your Bare Knuckle selection I totally agree preferring CB's. Suhr's I have no experience with. The BK's I liked best were Stormy Monday and PG Blues while other's were simply too hot and/or aggressive for my taste. CB's were a much 'better' traditional PAF. By boutique I mean the likes of Wizz. OX4, Rewind, Throbak etc. The continued popularity of these winders year after year is for good reason.

Daz

 

[ErictheRed]

Compared to your Bare Knuckle selection I totally agree preferring CB's. Suhr's I have no experience with. The BK's I liked best were Stormy Monday and PG Blues while other's were simply too hot and/or aggressive for my taste. CB's were a much 'better' traditional PAF. By boutique I mean the likes of Wizz. OX4, Rewind, Throbak etc. The continued popularity of these winders year after year is for good reason.

Daz

Actually I owned a Throbak also for a brief while and was unimpressed. Like I said, I haven't tried that many different pickups, but in my experience the Custombuckers are very, very good, and certainly the most complex and interesting that I've tried.

I like the Suhr offerings a lot as well, less complex but very good. The SSV neck might be my favorite neck pickup of the aftermarket ones I've tried.

 

[LeonC]

One thing to recognize is that not all custom buckers are created "equal." I own four Les Pauls with Custom Buckers -- a 2013 '54 Oxblood Benchmark series, and three different Collectors Choice guitars--all outfitted with pickups labeled "Custom Buckers". The "Custom Buckers" that they used in each model, however, were produced to model the guitar being replicated. I.e., the spec for the Custom Buckers in the Dutchburst (CC18) are rather different from those in the STP Burst (CC28) which are closer to those in the Waddy Wachtel (CC14).

In fact a created a spreadsheet where I've been collecting anecdotal pickup readings from owners for the last couple years. You can view it here. The first tab identifiers all the CC models. Then there are tabs for each model for which I've collected readings. You'll not a couple things. First, there is generally some consistency within a given model. If you look at the Shanks (CC7) model, for example, you'll note that neck is generally hotter than the bridge and the range of readings is relatively consistent. Now compare that to say the Waddy Wachtecl (CC14) and you'll note that the pickups are lower output and there's virtually no difference between the neck and the bridge.

And on the '54 Oxblood Benchmark guitars, the Custom Buckers were explicitly underwound "by 20%." So, the point is...not all Custom Buckers are created equal.

Personally, the CBs I like best are low output...I've never heard humbuckers with greater clarity and more great responsiveness than these low output CBs, with the exception of one or two pairs of actual PAFs (and not all the PAFs I've heard sound all that great...definitely a wide range of variability there).

 

[DADGAD]

Most CB’s were potted than not. the Page Buckers were potted IIRC.

 

[LeftyGtrPlr]

Not to throw a wrench into the discussion, however, the BB Pro's are alnico 5. I certainly have had a love/hate relationship with those. They do get ice-picky on the bridge. I just could never be satisfied with them in my Standard and replaced with Seymour Duncan JB/'59. Much hotter, but makes me happier.

Also, a little off-topic, I can vouch for the Suhr Doug Aldrich (another A5).. They sound amazing in my LPC!

 

[timberterra]

With the sheer number of criticisms of BB, CB, or other brands of pups, I'd say that most of us (especially at this time) are home players; where sufficient volume (to bring out the best of your gear) is not always obtainable. This is my situation currently, hence my change in opinion on BB pups from one day or week to the next, lol. Now and then, I open the amp volume and detect that my gear really has the tone, I just cannot demonstrate that every time I plug in at home.

Classicplayer

I’ve just come to this realization as well, which is why I am changing to pickups that serve better to low volume home playing for the time being

 

[zdoggie]

Ive got a couple of gibsons les pauls , and don't particulary see any real signifigance in them but the after market Ifeel holds the keys to as close to vintage tone as we can get I personally like throbaks I think their tone is amazing however that comes with a fairly high price tag I have a 59ri with bb's and bumblee caps and there is nothing there that really jumps out at you when I get the funds I'll change them out btw I play a fuchs odsII with a peterson 4x12 with 1265 celestions sounds great zdog

 

[Dazza]

One thing to recognize is that not all custom buckers are created "equal."

Definitely.
My mates 2016 R8 and 2017 R9 had CB's that were bright and thin with abrasive tinny/metallic highs. We swapped in some of my early CB's, OX4 and Wizz for comparison and he settled on Wizz'. My brightest CB (and lowest DCR at 7.1K) Shanks bridge pu was nowhere near as fatiguing, though known for it's bright cut / presence. From my comparisons 'standard' CB's in R guitars are not consistent with those from earlier CC's and Sigs despite having the same basic AIII description. I assume maybe changes in metallurgy or materials in production. Not that I actually know anything, I just listen to the same guitars and amps against one another.

Daz

 

[AcVox]

That spread sheet would seem to indicate that Gibson put some work into voicing those CB's to match the tone of the originals..

 

[LeonC]

That spread sheet would seem to indicate that Gibson put some work into voicing those CB's to match the tone of the originals..

Yep. How good a job did they do? The vast majority of us have no way of knowing.

That said, I have read reviews from a few owners of some of the guitars that were modeled. Generally I think the reviews generally tended to be positive but one or two folks indicated that the consistency wasn't perfect within a given model. How could it be? I would think it would be awfully hard to identify woods that not only looked similar to the original but had similar weight and sonic characteristics. From what I've read, the CC builders mainly concerned themselves with grain patterns and weight with the woods. With the pickups, it does look like they were relatively consistent within a particular model, at least based on the anecdotal evidence I've collected so far. And in face, Gibson used some stock pickups (typically burst buckers) on a few of the CCs because they said the BBs sounded on target when compared to the original. So they were clearly attempting to capture the sound of the original.

 

[DBDM]

On one of my LPs, 2016 WIne Red Standard HP, I have the stock BB Pros. I was reasonably unsatisfied with them. Prior to swapping them out, I took them to a well known locial luthier to have a full setup. When I showed back up to pick it up, I found him in the back, at his bench, with a little crowd of musicians all ooh'ing and ahh'ing over my guitar. he was getting the tones I had been looking for. Turns out it is not the pickups at all--apparently it is ME!

 

[Dazza]

With the pickups, it does look like they were relatively consistent within a particular model,

It's fun going back to old posts. The CC#7 Shanks was initially ignored on release then became very popular for it's distinctive tone and excellent in house aging - and low relative cost. It's a shame those who bought the 2nd edition of the Shanks got generic CB pickups and missed the unique mismatched set of the original. That initial attention to correct detail went out the window.

Daz