What would You Do ?

[Sct13]

Here is the story, A friend of mine has a another friend who is sadly dying, he was a prominent jazz and blues player here in the Detroit area "back in the day" and he had a few interesting pieces that he needed to move on (before he did)

So Rich bought them .....

This is one of those pieces

It's a 1977 Fender P bass that looks to me like it sat in a flood for a brief period then someone years later, tried to revive it....new electronics, pick guard, bridge and machines etc....

Plays killer and sounds great , could do with some new frets but there isn't a dead / buzzy note on it. It stays in tune, and holds the intonation just fine.

The finish "appears" to be nitro.

At first glance, and after playing it I said "Just leave it and play it till its dead" but I noticed some cracks or fissures in the body, and I will attempt to glue those up and clamp them....see how that goes...

Then he asked about the finish ....

so any ideas? Besides a complete Re- fin? which will take all kinds of filler and it will need an opaque color

Now a lot of this stuff is flaking off ....any ideas on how to preserve its present appearance?

 

[Leumas]

I am not a luthier by any stretch, but I’d leave it alone completely unless there start to be structural issues. This bass has an amazing story and I would preserve all of it. Let it deteriorate naturally.

 

[Sct13]

I’m messing with it right now and those cracks need attention. They are deep spits that go further than it first appears.
I’ll look at it in better light tomorrow.

 

[moreles]

Structurally, the question is whether or not the cracks are stable. If the water damage is old, they likely are, and if so, I would use something like thin CA within the cracks to fill the void and eliminate "inside out" shifting in the future. As for the hacked up finish, though it understandably offends purists beyond words to do so, I would use a rough cloth or even a pad to gently remove finish flakes and then do one or two quick French polish passes over that. I find that the shellac is nearly invisible, refreshes the original finish, and ties everything together subtly but beautifully, without any discernable buildup. Feels great to the touch. I've seen Dan E. do this in one of his videos or columns, so you don't doom yourself to hades by doing it yourself. I used this method on an 80 year old beaten, worn Gibson acoustic and it was a miracle. It hides nothing but looks amazing.

 

[jkes01]

Looks like the one through the controls is about to fall off.

I am not expert, but if it were mine, I’d see how bad that bottom one is and go from there with gluing. As for the finish, I would definitely clean that with naphtha to kill anything that‘s growing on there. Might dry brush that dirt or whatever that is off before wetting. flake off any loose finish, maybe a little shellac to touch up the raw wood.

 

[judson]

i would address the large cracks, clean it up some and just get it playable....leave it as the deceased guy left it....

then just play it...over time see how the rest of the cracks go, the small ones may stabilize but im no expert, just guessing...

weird somewhat as once in awhile i think, my guitars will survive me and is it best to move them out while your still around , or what....thoughts for another day.

it is a fact they will out live most if not all of us .......

 

[failsafe306]

If it’s a ‘77 the it’s probably a polyester finish. I say leave it as is.

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

+1 here.

Fix the cracks as they are threatening the integrity of the instrument.
Otherwise clean/scrape and leave as is.

 

[cmjohnson]

I'd consider stabilizing those cracks by running dowels through it, drilled in from the side, and fill the outer portion of the drill hole with matched wood. (Ash, I presume) And then you don't have to try to figure out how to glue up the cracks. Stability is achieved with the dowel(s) crossing through them.

Let the finish do what it's going to do. It's that or refin and relic it.

 

[redking]

Normally I would leave a beat up guitar alone, but something like this that has had a long exposure to water, I would strip it, fix the cracks and refinish it because it will significantly extend the useful life of the instrument. The real pros can comment on the best way, but it looks like the cracks are narrow enough that they can be glued and clamped.

 

[Oranjeaap]

Can you reduce the gaps by applying external pressure?

 

[Sct13]

Can you reduce the gaps by applying external pressure?

Yes...

 

[Oranjeaap]

I had one guitar with a flaky finish like that.
I stopped the flaking by removing all pieces that had already lost the seperation with the wood but were still just dangling there, then I sanded the edges smooth.
There might be a more elegant way though.

A comparison with adehesive tape comes to mind, you know, when you can't find where it begins, you turn it against the light or you run your fingernail over it hoping to find that little ledge so you can peel it off. But when there is the tiniest bit of air or dust, it will never stick that same way again.

You could just leave it, but those flaky patches can really hurt your arms

 

[cmjohnson]

Due to water damage, the wood has changed shape and is cracking due to the stress. It needs to be stabilized.

Do the cross-pinning with dowels as I suggested. You'll have the stability. Cover the end of the dowel repair with matched grain wood. The repair will be unobtrusive and won't require you to dig around in the cracks trying to get glue in there.

 

[Sct13]

So drill a long hole sagittally (across) and glue in a dowel... do I compress the crack with a clamp? Or leave it stress free with just the dowel and glue?

I’ll run this by the owner

 

[LPTDMSV]

If it’s a ‘77 the it’s probably a polyester finish. I say leave it as is.

Polyester finish is tough to remove! It can be a battle.

 

[dcomiskey]

I gotta be honest, but I wouldn't TOUCH it. If it plays and sounds great, then keep it as is. Maybe the only thing I would do is squirt some glue into the cracks to prevent further cracking. AND THAT IS IT!

There's just way too much mojo with this bass to be messed with. Also, maybe it's just me, but I'd feel guilty refinishing a guy's guitar, given his situation (even when he passes). But I'm weird.

 

[Sct13]

Ok, owner doesn’t want to drill and dowel.. he says just glue it and fix it so it plays well ...

So I cleaned it up with some naphtha, scraped the sharpies off, and sanded ... it dried and I crammed (with a pipette) hide glue in the large crack and closed with a long clamp, wiped the squeeze out and excess... and it’s drying....

The owner is kinda ... whatever... just make it play, he is recording with it next week and then hanging it on the wall ...

After pulling the neck and checking the date code it’s a 79 ... the necks finish is almost as wasted ... but the maple withstood the abuse much better ... but the back has sharpies like a “prickly pear”.... so I lightly sanded that back slightly for comfort...

 

[Sct13]

Here are the finished pics if anyone is interested, got it put back together today....

Worked out OK....The intonation changed a lot and I had to do some additional adjustments as would be expected.

But it feels way better to play, less painful.

We'll see how it looks 5 or 10 years .....There were areas of rot that took multiple coats to "fill"

 

[jkes01]

Nice job! Turned out great.