What to do when your binding job doesn't go well.

[IceGator8]

I pulled out my caliper and the thin part of the binding is between .046" - .050"

 

[bfcg]

I have a home built floating router jig that I built long before stewmac realized that people were not as dumb as they thought. I keep it on top of my "go bar" rig.
Stew mac is a good source for the bearings though, If you dont live near any industrial suppliers.
Those hand held dremel attachments look too wide for the tight curves and if you have a recurve to deal with ,it just add another dimension to the difficulty.

 

[bfcg]

If your body is the same thickness all the way around, then just build a jig that holds the router up so that the base of the router doesn't hit the carve.

This is not to scale or anything.... obviously the stop piece would have to be below the router bit etc. But this is how I would do it. The router stays put and you carefully move the body using the stop piece as a guide.

That stop piece would have to be the exact same diameter as the bit minus the thickness of the binding, it would have to be exactly centered under the bit and it would have to be perfectly maintained perpendicular to the body while routing. But it would definitely work.
But without the "float", how would it do the cutaway?

 

[IceGator8]

Like this. I built this in just a few minutes. Works pretty well.

I think I'll shoot for this only using a bearing bit instead of the edge guide.

 

[IceGator8]

That stop piece would have to be the exact same diameter as the bit minus the thickness of the binding, it would have to be exactly centered under the bit and it would have to be perfectly maintained perpendicular to the body while routing. But it would definitely work.
But without the "float", how would it do the cutaway?

In my case it would work because I initially routed the horn the same dept as everything else.

 

[IceGator8]

Alright, I just ordered the Stew Mac router bits and a couple of different sizes of bindings.

Does anyone have advice on getting the old binding off? Would using my heat gun be a good idea?

 

[pinefd]

Alright, I just ordered the Stew Mac router bits and a couple of different sizes of bindings.

Does anyone have advice on getting the old binding off? Would using my heat gun be a good idea?

How about just routing it off? Actually, I thought that was your original intent.

 

[IceGator8]

How about just routing it off? Actually, I thought that was your original intent.

It was but I notice that the part near the horn that I last glued got hooked on something and pulled back about an inch. I wonder if I can't just rip the stuff off.

What I'll probably do is sand all of it down to about the depth of the thin piece so that I know that when I route the channel will be clean. This means I'll have to sand down the parts slightly that I have yet to bind.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Greg- I don't think I overstate things when I say that people who buy tools from StewMac are far from dumb. So, even though you are a big timer here and I am a mouthy newcomer, that statement equating intellect with buying from S-Mc pretty well pisses me off.

We all have our own reasons for choosing the tools we buy versus those we make. I have a Fleischman/Williams( perhaps dumb people don't know that those two gentlemen are well respected luthiers in the world of guitars that don't plug into anything)_ that is SARCASM-sarcasm is a statement made in a syntax and tone intended to portray the opposite of what is said, usually as a comment of disdain-
It is a large but quite competent design that uses a lazy susan, precision drawer sliders and parallelogram arm relationship and a base for the routing tool that has a minimal contact point to keep the cutter in accurate relationship to the domed guitar top and back. I built mine from some pictures and general measurements- every stinking screw, glue and cut and measurement. It works exactly as it should.

I am left handed, that jig has a fair amount of mass and right now my left shoulder has a huge tear in the rotator cuff that I cannot get fixed right now. The motion to operate it causes severe lingering pain- believe it, I know how to work through pain- I have compression fractured vertebrae twice, surgery once, and I regularly undergo large needle based nerve injection, nerve burning and the like without benefit of la-la IV's because I go back to work after.
You may find this foolish but I enjoy having an unusual tool to lend to a friend/acquaintence- it makes me feel useful-especially now that I am so less useful in a profession where locally I am, or was, considered the best. This particular circumstance would not be the first time I have loaned a $300+ tool to someone I have never seen.
I invite you to go to the WoodNet Handtools forum or OLF(we just added an Electric Sub-forum) and check me out. My intellect and attitude toward others is not cheaply held there. J. E. Mike Tobey, Esq. This would have been a private message but I am not yet eligible for that here and I will not let such a low aspersion go unchallenged.(Maybe I am dumb, I have over 100 posts)

 

[IceGator8]

Just a quick update. I used the slider on my caliper to measure the binding depth of the parts I haven't yet bound. Interestingly then depth varies from .050"-.070". I must have sanded some stuff and not remembered. I guess it's a good thing I'm going to redo the channel.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

That was my point on the issue of taking into account the body thickness and the top carve when routing for binding and then trimming the carve to the binding. Sometimes you get lucky-other times you have to make your luck-measure like you did and plan.mt

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Bump-photo is the binding jig, one of three types I have.mt

 

[IceGator8]

Funny thing, my old binding just peels off without too much hassle. Even more funny is it left the channel relatively clean. Doesn't matter though, my stew mac bits come tomorrow so I'll be building the jig and fixing this sucka!

 

[IceGator8]

Bump-photo is the binding jig, one of three types I have.mt

That's a sweet jig.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Are you doing one of the stationary simple jigs? Dedicated to your particular build? If you are trying to do a replica build, there is an expected position for the bottom of your binding for the top of your guitar. My rabbet bearing bits are LMII-they are different from S-Mc. No added "glue tolerance" and more sizes. Don't forget for the thickness you can shim your bearings with tape.

I could not resist and bought a raw body on ebay. newly made and has a bubinga element inlaid in about 4" width of the center of the top.The maker did it very well. I will be doing "custom" style multi-layer on it in ivoroid and black. I know you are doing the single bind but really be careful on your set up so you have control of where the binding is scraped thinner. I highly recommend the S-Mc. or LMII binding tape-it is tough and can be drawn up tight. I use it and my surgical tubing together-haven't had a visible gap since I went to that combination. You will find that there is a real sweetspot for pulling tight to the edge of the top and down for the flat to the sub-body.Work on that too on this do-over. The special tape is good for masking too-I have had no finish lifting with it and it is thick enough to protect when drilling or when sanding or scraping a finish repair.

One last thing from the unknown "Know-it-all-- slower setting superglue works well for binding- and I always take a small brush and barely pre-seal the ledge with super-blonde shellac. Superglue, especially, will wick into the light top wood-other glues do too, to varying degrees. Now, I think you liked testor cement or something like it. That style, Weld-On, Duco, etc. is a well respected glue choice. So do go with what will be comfortable for you.mt
If you still run into problems, the loan of a jig is still here.mt

 

[IceGator8]

Yup, doing the simple stationary jig where I'll mount a laminate trimer with the bearing bit facing down. Fortunately my the height of the binding is consistent all the way around the body.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Make sure that you use removable fasteners to connect the base at your height-that way,if you want or need to, you can shim to change height in addition to the adjustment in the trimmer. I use PC trimmers, with my favorite being my 310- they don't make that one anymore- the 7310 stays on that LT jig all of the time. If you buy a trimmer for the jig, I can tell you that the least expensive unit considered reliable in the business of binding is a Ridgid from Home Depot. I have the S-Mc edge guide on my Bishop Cochran Foredom and I have a bushed insert base for it-works great for the tight stuff.mt maybe I'll do a pic or two. Anybody interested?

 

[IceGator8]

I'm always interested in pics of tools and jigs. I already have a Dewalt laminate trimmer that I was going to use. It's not going to be mounted permanently. If I decide I want something permanent I'm going with that SM gizmo that floats.

 

[IceGator8]

How about just routing it off? Actually, I thought that was your original intent.

Funny thing, some of the binding that wasn't glued got hooked on a couch seem as I was inspecting the problem and it started pulling. It seemed to come off fairly easy so I kept pulling. I got about five inches pulled off and then it started taking some mahogany with it. My desire to pull the binding off was cured at this point. I glued the part with mahogany stuck to it with some tightbond.

I just finished sanding the rest of the binding flush and preparing the body to recut the channel. The part where the mahogany peeled off is completely invisible. Finishing the binding off was actually good practice for not screwing up the new binding.

Another funny thing is ordered both the .090 and the .060 binding this time. I tried to get the .060 in the tall size but they only have it in the .375. I thought that size wouldn't be tall enough for the inner horn. As it turns out it just barely fits. I can't tell you how happy this makes me. Scrapping down .060 is much easier than scraping .090. Hopefully the Stew Mac binding bit I bought will also help so that scraping is kept to a minimum.

I also have to give some props to Stew Mac. I was messing with my Stew Mac Precision router base for Dremel when one of the studs snapped. I called them and they insisted on sending me a new unit overnight free of charge. This type of service is one of the reasons Stew Mac gets most of my business in spite of the fact that they are sometimes a bit more expensive.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

I will chime in on S-M. A tool is too expensive when it does not do its task well measured against price. Customer service is the mostly hidden "spare part" and needs to be factored in with longevity. LMII has a like service, as does Lee Valley/Veritas;Lie-Nielsen too. S-M also has the distinction of offering more professional luthier grade, craft specific tools than anyone else. Luthiers' Mercantile(LMII) is slowly adding more electric guitar items.
For those who have few fabrication tools in their shops, which may well be the kitchen table, these vendors are a blessing. I should own stock in S-M by now but Maddoff got my millions that I did not spend there. "That's a joke son." Foghorn Leghorn, the great twentieth century avian philosopher.