What to do when your binding job doesn't go well.

[IceGator8]

I attempted to do the binding last night. I use the Weld On glue that Stew Mac sells for the job. I would have used ex nihilo's binding bits mixed with acetone glue but I already had the Stew Mac stuff. I only bound to the cutaway so the binding job isn't complete.

When I pulled off the tape this morning everything seemed ok. I had a lot of squeezout below and above the binding. I started the process by using a sanding wheel on my Dremel to get the top of the binding close to the top of the guitar. I then used a scraper and sand paper to make it flush. there were no major gaps or anything so the top turned out ok. The problem came when I attempted to make the binding flush with the side of the guitar.

On the side the binding was sitting just proud of the wood. I used sandpaper and a scraper. For whatever reason after I'd sanded the binding flush including sanding the glue squeezout the binding isn't the same thickness all around. This is especially true in the waist area.

I'm not going to lie, this flaw will probably drive me nuts. My options are the following:

1. Don't worry about it and this guitar becomes a "players guitar".

2. Route out the old binding and start again using one of the following tools:

Stew Mac Binding Router Guide


True Channel Binding Router Jig

Precision Edge Guide for Stew Mac Dremel router base (I already have the router base)

I'm wondering if it's possible to become proficient with first and third options with practice. I know others have struggled with these tools.

I'd like to avoid buying the TrueChannel jig since it's so expensive. However, if I have to I will drop the money so that I can have a binding channel that doesn't bug me.

I need to make a decision tomorrow so I can order whatever parts I need as well as new binding. I figure if I'm going to redo the channel there's no point to finishing the binding job around the cutaway.

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[ExNihilo]

You have to fix it Ice.

Don't use the Stew Mac stuff. A dremel is not powerful enough.

I would go to Home Depot and look for some thick MDF in the "scrap" section. You can get some nice pieces for a couple of dollars. Then, build some kind of a floating router devise. (I think there are some examples on this forum)

Is the existing channel underneath the binding still uniform or did you sand wood? You could try to melt away the old binding with acetone and scrape off the old glue with a razor.

 

[ExNihilo]

BTW, in the pic, the thin sections look right to me and the thick section looks too thick. If it is only that thick section that you are worrying about, I would just sand it down to the same thickness as the thin sections.

I found the Stew Mac binding to be way too thick anyway when I measured a historic's binding.... So, I never used my Stew Mac binding.

 

[IceGator8]

I doubt it's uniform anymore. It was before I messed it up. My original method of routing for the binding was good but that was prior to carving the top. Now that the top is carved I have to do it some other way.

I'm trying to picture what a floating router jig would look like.

 

[IceGator8]

BTW, in the pic, the thin sections look right to me and the thick section looks too thick. If it is only that thick section that you are worrying about, I would just sand it down to the same thickness as the thin sections.

I found the Stew Mac binding to be way too thick anyway when I measured a historic's binding.... So, I never used my Stew Mac binding.

Well the plan was to use the .090 binding and scrape it down where it was supposed to be. I probably should have just got the .060 stuff to begin with.

Where it's thin it is really thin. I'm not sure I would have any luck sanding the rest of it too match. I'm worried it would end up with even more variation.

To answer your question it's the thin part that bothers me.

 

[IceGator8]

You have me thinking. When I get up in the morning I'll measure the thickness of the thin part and get back to you.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

I am willing to lend you either of two jigs. I have the big$$luthier tools jig with a 7310 on it-it is the adjustable one set for LP thickness of the body. Or, I have the new StewMac. On it, I could send the post mounted parts-you screw it down to something and you make a cradle, attach your trimmer. call me- 563-320-4034. PS- I have built a Fleischman/Williams, but the freight would kill us.mt

 

[ExNihilo]

If your body is the same thickness all the way around, then just build a jig that holds the router up so that the base of the router doesn't hit the carve.

This is not to scale or anything.... obviously the stop piece would have to be below the router bit etc. But this is how I would do it. The router stays put and you carefully move the body using the stop piece as a guide.

 

[alk-3]

Like this. I built this in just a few minutes. Works pretty well.

 

[ExNihilo]

Exactly! Tom's the man.

BTW Tom, I am almost ready to glue the neck to the body and grain fill the back....

Also, I got a copy of Beauty of the Burst. I think I would like something like 9 0905 (pg. 68) or 9 0844 (pg. 66) or 9 0901 (pg. 70) Some kind of Tea Burst like these. Are these doable?

 

[pinefd]

And just to simplify your life a bit, if you make a router stand as shown above, you don't need the "stop piece" if you have a binding router bit with the bearing at the tip of the bit. I've done it this way a few times.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Just one of the many blessings of the LP is a flat back. Complexities in these jigs are present because of the dome of the back on a traditionally constructed acoustic steel string. So, if he has a truly flat back, and can index off it, and assuming that the maple is shaped consistently then the stationary jig is perfect and economical. I'll see if I can link to the model I have that involves movement of the jig around the guitar. A West Coast master and I were just discussing this last night in relationship to binding my body on #1 LP.The problem arises when the binding is not considered in the lamination of the top to the sub-body and the carve. I will ultimately be lowering the edge of my top to meet the binding- the binding final height being about 1/4". He will have to reveal the trade secret that reaches that goal on a regular basis. One obvious issue is that at the time of binding, the top must be very close to final in order to get correct pressure wrap during glue up.(I like 50 feet of surgical tubing-I always have a slingshot arsenal) As you may imagine, this will require some very artful use of a card scraper to obtain a consistent thickness and the binding must be gap free. Our OP might want to make a gauge height marker with a soft silver pencil, guitar and bottom of pencil holder on a flat surface and run it around the perimeter-then put a ruler to the line at a fair number of places around the body to know for sure the spacing.mthttp://www.luthiertool.com/

 

[Paragon]

Yeah.. just make something like that that holds the router in position and move the guitar body through the bit. Kinda like a pin router. Just test on scrap wood and make sure the jig is clamped down nicely.

Also, I'd use (if I ever get to making a guitar) the acetone and binding bits for adhesive 'cause if there were any gaps, that glue should fill it nicely and be the color of the binding instead of clear like that stewmac weld glue. Chances might be that there may have been some glue that didn't squeeze out causing the binding to be thin when sanded down. With the binding bits glue, it is all binding color so you will never notice.

Just wondering, is it possible to use a jig like that^^ with a lower bearing on the bit to trim the binding or is there issues with that?

 

[Ole'Lefty]

Rabbet bearing bits are the cornerstone of most binding jigs. And for fine tuning, a wrap or two of tape allows whisper cuts.mt

 

[ExNihilo]

BTW.... Another bonus for binding+acetone glue. You can re-fret a Les Paul sanding the old nibs down (if you have to work on the fingerboard) and then glob on some more binding thickly melted in acetone for new nibs. Just match the color of the binding with some kind of pigment. Piece of cake.

That is a hassle free way to re-fret with nibs!

 

[alk-3]

A bottom bearing bit will work just fine, but as pointed out, the bearing and bit diameters must be dead on. Wrapping the bearing with a bit of tape is one solution for fine tuning the rabbet depth, but I would never use that method myself because its too inaccurate for me. Tape overlap creates out-of-round bearings, plus the natural compression of the tape and adhesive, etc. modifying the bit itself seems less effective than modifying the fixture, but really, whatever works for you works

 

[Paragon]

What about a straint cutting bit/bottom bearing to trim the binding? or is it better to just scrape it by hand?

 

[Paragon]

Here is another jig.

 

[derraj06]

Question. I was reading where people don't like the binding from stew mac and that is it too thick. where is a better place to get it what what sizes are most people using?

 

[IceGator8]

I am willing to lend you either of two jigs. I have the big$$luthier tools jig with a 7310 on it-it is the adjustable one set for LP thickness of the body. Or, I have the new StewMac. On it, I could send the post mounted parts-you screw it down to something and you make a cradle, attach your trimmer. call me- 563-320-4034. PS- I have built a Fleischman/Williams, but the freight would kill us.mt

That's an an awesome offer! Let me see if I can make my own jig first. If it isn't working I'll take you up on it.