what kind of pick-up would you use?

[bomberdrummer]

Hey Guys, I'm a newbie to the forum(they wouldn't give me a password on the other one,but thats alright) Listen, I've been refinishing a 1989 Standard and I'm getting down to Pick-ups....I would like your input on what you would put in it....Burst-Buckers?...Seymore Duncan antiquities?...Pearly Gates?....any other brands?.......I know tone is "the thing" and being just a straight forward rock-n-roller I would appreciate any input ya'll might have...I had a 1974 standard(cherry sunburst...stolen what a bummer)...it had the original humbuckers in it..Full sized,not mini's...and that guitar was the best sounding Paul I ever heard..I don't know what Gibson was putting in them at the time but they were sure special....If I could get it even close to that sound it would be great....any input would be welcome...thanks guys .....LONG LIVE LESTER........bomberdrummer

 

[Dave Stephens]

You should also be open to other products by a good list of smaller pickup makers who are posting here on the forum also, Shed Pickups, myself (of course), WB Pickups, Jon Gundry's work, Motor City Pickups. some of these guys don't do large production runs so you might actually get a more customized product for what you want than off the shelf products from the bigger guys. The fact that they are all here and not censored is pretty unique in the forum world, so you can talk directly to anyone of these guys.......

 

[bomberdrummer]

Thanks guys for the info...I 've talked to a few nice folks already who want to help me get my sound right......I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies and for the help.......I'll have some pic's of my standard just as soon as it's finished....and I'll let ya'll know what I finally ended up putting in it.......thanks again......... Bomberdrummer...have a rockin' weekend

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

You should also be open to other products by a good list of smaller pickup makers who are posting here on the forum also, Shed Pickups, myself (of course), WB Pickups, Jon Gundry's work, Motor City Pickups. some of these guys don't do large production runs so you might actually get a more customized product for what you want than off the shelf products from the bigger guys. The fact that they are all here and not censored is pretty unique in the forum world, so you can talk directly to anyone of these guys.......

The more the merrier I am for the little guys out there 100 %. Maybe you guys can explain why certain pickups sound one why & another totally different. To me it seems there is a limited # of things you could do differently .

 

[Dave Stephens]

OhmyGod!!!! NO. The problem with making pickups is there are so many options that you can literally drive yourself nuts with all the variables one can do.

When I first got into this I swore I would never make humbuckers for instance, because to me they all sounded the same, loud mud. Well, then I got exposed to Chris Cain playing an 80s reissue 335, and getting ungodly tone out of that thing. So I gave in and made my first bucker set. Unlike most others I didn't make a set and see how hot I could humanly make it, I went the other direction to see how much character and tone I could get out of the thing, and did a pretty good job of it. I had no idea at the time that alot of original PAFs aren't wound very hot at all, and to me they sound better than the overwound stuff.

So, ok in a humbucker what variables are there for a pickup maker? OK, here we go, I'll probably miss a bunch of things....you got pole screws, there are two alloys that were used historically by Gibson, you can't buy these from any of the parts makers so you have to have them made, each alloy sounds vastly different than the other, change your screws change your tone.....magnet wire, 3 kinds basically, 3 gauges and inbetween gauges and two builds of insulation. You've got machine winds and you got scatters of various turns per layer, all having tonal effects that are very noticeable. You got magnets, 6 different useable alnicos with different magnetic strengths and metallurigcal/electrical effects on tone through eddy current loading. 7 if you count ceramics. You've got two useable steel alloys for the slugs and keeper bar, both with vastly different effects on tone. You can pot, which dulls the tone, or not pot which is historically correct. You can stabilize the cover to stop squeals or not. Cover metal content. Mostly we're stuck with what parts makers sell which are Asian made and not historically correct, most of them, as they have a layer of copper plating under the nickel, then there's chrome which sounds different (not good...). There's coil offset, how many more turns there are on one coil versus the other coil, or both wound identically, ratios have different effects on tone there too. Baseplate material, usually nickel silver, but brass can have an effect if you need to quell some treble. Cable types, four strand versus vintage braided cable, both sound different. Magnet size, long or short version, both sound different. So you can see there's a huge amount of variables in making humbuckers. You can buy readily availalbe Asian made parts and even among those different parts from different suppliers sound different because there's no consistency in alloys used. The vintage correct alloys used in the US aren't the same kinds of alloys made in Asia. So....limited, heck no, one can wind and build hundreds of variations on one idea, literally. For me its real difficult to say OK this is DONE, becuase there's always another idea to try. My research into PAFs has put about four or five different sets up for sale on my site and I'm about to announce a new set and already am trying another variation on that one Scary huh?

 

[Nugget]

There are so many types of so called PAFs out there that you could easily get the wrong idea of what a PAF tone is. But to be fair it sounds like you have heard a good PAF tone which you are trying to capture.

People like Dave Stephens and myself spend stupid amounts of time researching real PAFs, sourcing materials and testing when we could be churning out average crap instead. There's no substitute for solid R & D.

A lot of manufacturers talk about their products like they are the Holy Grail of tone. Money changes hands, dissappointment follows but Advertising and bullshit triumph again.
I just wish that kind of advertising didn't work. How many pickups have we all tried over the years. You may have been better saving that money and buying some genuine PAFs instead.


I've had quite a lot of correspondance with Dave and I know he's got a product that will capture that sound for you. I know that because I have recreated a PAF tone too which I defy anyone to criticise. I have also listened to Dave's sound samples and I'm impressed by him.

As you are in South Carolina you'd be best to contact Dave.

 

[WBPickups]

No offense but man it's getting deep! When I have more time from mass producing my garbage pickups I'll retort... LOL! I do feel that my products will stand the test of time! (My Stuck Up , Cork Sniffing Moment.) That's why I offer demo pickups from time to time. I put my pickups where my mouth is.. I am proud of my work and my customers have been 100% satisfied with their tones....

WB

PS, One of my customers will be playing shows in the UK soon on the UK leg of the Heaven & Hell tour, on the main stage. He uses my VTP's and VTPH's.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

No offense but man it's getting deep! When I have more time from mass producing my garbage pickups I'll retort... LOL! I do feel that my products will stand the test of time! (My Stuck Up , Cork Sniffing Moment.) That's why I offer demo pickups from time to time. I put my pickups where my mouth is.. I am proud of my work and my customers have been 100% satisfied with their tones....

WB

I will say you are a stand up guy

 

[bomberdrummer]

Hey Guys, ya' know I never knew that there were so many things to creating pick-up's. Being a regular joe guitar player I couldn't begin to understand the time and dedication that you guys put into your products. I just know that when I plug my Lester through my 50-watt Marshall Master Gain it's "that" sound that I'm looking for. Thats the reason I play a Les Paul. There's no other guitar that can get "that" sound. Big and fat and ballsy......no excuses..... I might go through 50 pick-up's till I find "that" tone but, thats what it's all about I think. I think everyone who plays a Lester knows what I'm talking about. I'm looking forward to talking to "everyone" on the forum. That's the reason I'm asking for advice and I've talked to some really good folks already. I think everyone on here has a product worthy of trying. I might be happier with one as opposed to the other,but thats a matter of what I'm looking for in finding "that" sound. No matter what pick-up I end up with, I'm sure ya'll agree with me that when I find it that it will be"that" tone. And when I'm recording my next song or playing in front of a bunch of (hopefully topless) girls or just jamming in my music room, it will be something awesome.Thanks to all of you who take the time to dedicate yourselves to "that" tone, ya'll will be the ones who will make my gold-top scream,wail,cry and rip the faces off anyone who cares enough to listen. That's what a Les Paul is all about...wouldn't you agree?....BOMBERDRUMMER

 

[Nugget]

No offense but man it's getting deep! When I have more time from mass producing my garbage pickups I'll retort... LOL! I do feel that my products will stand the test of time! (My Stuck Up , Cork Sniffing Moment.) That's why I offer demo pickups from time to time. I put my pickups where my mouth is.. I am proud of my work and my customers have been 100% satisfied with their tones....

WB

PS, One of my customers will be playing shows in the UK soon on the UK leg of the Heaven & Hell tour, on the main stage. He uses my VTP's and VTPH's.

Well I'll not be there to hear them sorry. Just not my cup of tea really.

No problem with you here. I'm merely suggesting to Bomberdrummer that a boutique option may fit what he wants better than standard production line stuff that you'd get from SD or DM. Sorry if I didn't include you in the custom spectrum but I don't know you well enough to recommend you or your products.

Personally, I'm happy to go head to head with any other maker and I'll not tippy toe around any sensitive subject either. Nor am I here to start a war. I'm here to help a few people and perhaps get a little help with LP related stuff myself.

 

[WBPickups]

Well I'll not be there to hear them sorry. Just not my cup of tea really.

No problem with you here. I'm merely suggesting to Bomberdrummer that a boutique option may fit what he wants better than standard production line stuff that you'd get from SD or DM. Sorry if I didn't include you in the custom spectrum but I don't know you well enough to recommend you or your products.

Personally, I'm happy to go head to head with any other maker and I'll not tippy toe around any sensitive subject either. Nor am I here to start a war. I'm here to help a few people and perhaps get a little help with LP related stuff myself.

I have a twisted, tongue & cheek sense of humor. So don't take it too personally... I didn't. Life's too short to be too serious to me. I was just pulling ya a bit... A lot of people on the forums have not played or heard of my pickups. But there is a lot out there being played though.. I never worry about people recomending my products. Recomemnedations are opinions. Too many people have opinions that are sometimes just to promote.

I am guilty of that too at times... That's why I tend to shy away from posting on forums. I feel dirty pushing my products but at the same time. I have to let people know I am here. It's what I do, and how can I continue without promoting. But my customers that buy my pickups know that I back them up if they are not satisfied... I am a custom shop with a twist. I will wind it how you want it. Not what I want you to have. You tell me what your looking for, I'll get you there. Bottom line is Tone! Not the spacer bars.. Although I do use great materials... Is it original? Nothing will ever be except for the originals. But even some of those just plain sucked...

You know, I am a fan of other winders out there. Even Seymour. He is true boutique master who got big. But even some of his production models sound good! But still if you ever are fortunate to get one of his hand-wounds. You would love it, he's got the Midas touch. I have heard a few of his and they were great!

As with you, I am proud of my pickups and will stand behind them 100%. But remember some people like apples, some like oranges. My pickups are oranges, sweet with a sour kick! What I am saying is, I believe that a PAF tone should be able to be sweet when needed and growl when pushed! From Duane to Angus to Schenker to BB to Albert.... Each of them didn't really use that much of a different humbucker to achieve those tones. Guitars, Amps, Effects, and fingers are just as important!

By the way, my name is Will Boggs. Nice to meet you.. No arguments with me.. I have to get back to mass-producing my pickups to the masses! LOL! Just playin'...... Looking forward to meeting you Dave up there in Portland & hearing your stuff.. And I never heard your pickups Shed either... Would like to hear them someday too. Like I said before, I am a fan of other winders pickups too. It's an art that I have mad respect for and the people who do it.

 

[WBPickups]

Hey Guys, ya' know I never knew that there were so many things to creating pick-up's. Being a regular joe guitar player I couldn't begin to understand the time and dedication that you guys put into your products. I just know that when I plug my Lester through my 50-watt Marshall Master Gain it's "that" sound that I'm looking for. Thats the reason I play a Les Paul. There's no other guitar that can get "that" sound. Big and fat and ballsy......no excuses..... I might go through 50 pick-up's till I find "that" tone but, thats what it's all about I think. I think everyone who plays a Lester knows what I'm talking about. I'm looking forward to talking to "everyone" on the forum. That's the reason I'm asking for advice and I've talked to some really good folks already. I think everyone on here has a product worthy of trying. I might be happier with one as opposed to the other,but thats a matter of what I'm looking for in finding "that" sound. No matter what pick-up I end up with, I'm sure ya'll agree with me that when I find it that it will be"that" tone. And when I'm recording my next song or playing in front of a bunch of (hopefully topless) girls or just jamming in my music room, it will be something awesome.Thanks to all of you who take the time to dedicate yourselves to "that" tone, ya'll will be the ones who will make my gold-top scream,wail,cry and rip the faces off anyone who cares enough to listen. That's what a Les Paul is all about...wouldn't you agree?....BOMBERDRUMMER

Nothing like plugging into a fifty watt with a great Les Paul....

My new 50! Hand Wired Non-Master Volume.. I am so digging her!

 

[bomberdrummer]

Hey WB, Here's a pic of my 50 watt JMP Master Gain.....74 or 76 I think....Gotta love them Marshall's. .......

 

[WBPickups]

Hey WB, Here's a pic of my 50 watt JMP Master Gain.....74 or 76 I think....Gotta love them Marshall's. .......

Your amp brings back some memories of my best friend who past away years ago. We were in a band together and that's what he played. It looks a lot like his old one. Broken "M" and all (his was missing the ll's too).. He had his initials painted on the sides of his. I still remember it like it was yesterday... "RS" painted on the side and cigerette burning on the top of it... Playing Aerosmith, Zep, Thin Lizzy songs.. That was great times! I bet that thing rocks!

Will

 

[bomberdrummer]

You ain't kiddin' my brother...this amp howls....that's my kinda music too...I ain't stompin' on todays stuff,Ilike it too...but times just seemed a little better back then......I think if you look real close you might see the cig burns on top of this one

 

[GuitarGal]

Hey WB, Here's a pic of my 50 watt JMP Master Gain.....74 or 76 I think....Gotta love them Marshall's. .......

Cool~

 

[LoKi]

I'm have tried many pickups and combinations over the years, and for 'off the shelf' you can't beat the SD Alnico 2 Pro's in a Les Paul... For me anyway... everyone is different!

In my SG I have a Duncan Custom *the ceramic one* and a 59 in the neck and its a great combo... very useful.

I've also got a set of Breed pickups *Dimarzio* that are smokin'... and an Evolution bridge pickup that when paired with a Breed in the neck creates a whole new beast out of any guitar... its such a vocal pickup... very cool tone!

I know a lot of guys who swear by Bare Knuckle Pickups... pricey, but worth it!

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

OhmyGod!!!! NO. The problem with making pickups is there are so many options that you can literally drive yourself nuts with all the variables one can do.

When I first got into this I swore I would never make humbuckers for instance, because to me they all sounded the same, loud mud. Well, then I got exposed to Chris Cain playing an 80s reissue 335, and getting ungodly tone out of that thing. So I gave in and made my first bucker set. Unlike most others I didn't make a set and see how hot I could humanly make it, I went the other direction to see how much character and tone I could get out of the thing, and did a pretty good job of it. I had no idea at the time that alot of original PAFs aren't wound very hot at all, and to me they sound better than the overwound stuff.

So, ok in a humbucker what variables are there for a pickup maker? OK, here we go, I'll probably miss a bunch of things....you got pole screws, there are two alloys that were used historically by Gibson, you can't buy these from any of the parts makers so you have to have them made, each alloy sounds vastly different than the other, change your screws change your tone.....magnet wire, 3 kinds basically, 3 gauges and inbetween gauges and two builds of insulation. You've got machine winds and you got scatters of various turns per layer, all having tonal effects that are very noticeable. You got magnets, 6 different useable alnicos with different magnetic strengths and metallurigcal/electrical effects on tone through eddy current loading. 7 if you count ceramics. You've got two useable steel alloys for the slugs and keeper bar, both with vastly different effects on tone. You can pot, which dulls the tone, or not pot which is historically correct. You can stabilize the cover to stop squeals or not. Cover metal content. Mostly we're stuck with what parts makers sell which are Asian made and not historically correct, most of them, as they have a layer of copper plating under the nickel, then there's chrome which sounds different (not good...). There's coil offset, how many more turns there are on one coil versus the other coil, or both wound identically, ratios have different effects on tone there too. Baseplate material, usually nickel silver, but brass can have an effect if you need to quell some treble. Cable types, four strand versus vintage braided cable, both sound different. Magnet size, long or short version, both sound different. So you can see there's a huge amount of variables in making humbuckers. You can buy readily availalbe Asian made parts and even among those different parts from different suppliers sound different because there's no consistency in alloys used. The vintage correct alloys used in the US aren't the same kinds of alloys made in Asia. So....limited, heck no, one can wind and build hundreds of variations on one idea, literally. For me its real difficult to say OK this is DONE, becuase there's always another idea to try. My research into PAFs has put about four or five different sets up for sale on my site and I'm about to announce a new set and already am trying another variation on that one Scary huh?

Thanks that is very interesting sounds like you guys are like us vintage hounds trying to source out real vintage inlay materials & such

 

[ptate]

Just out of interest, the only thing that stands out as odd in here is that no-one suggests using an older Gibson pickup.........?!?

I love the sound and mojo associated with my serial numbers/ PAFs and it's incredibly encouraging to see builders making in-roads to the "perfect" original. But what about the originals? Other than early PAF's/serial numbers, early T-Tops (ala Page) are still not that pricey.

 

[WBPickups]

Just out of interest, the only thing that stands out as odd in here is that no-one suggests using an older Gibson pickup.........?!?

I love the sound and mojo associated with my serial numbers/ PAFs and it's incredibly encouraging to see builders making in-roads to the "perfect" original. But what about the originals? Other than early PAF's/serial numbers, early T-Tops (ala Page) are still not that pricey.

I have a couple of T-Tops that I like. Some were sour though..... But I have a couple that sure do sing.. I have here now, one that I just recharged the mag for a customer. It sounds great!