What happens if I intonate a Buzz Feiten

jay1williams

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
1,171
Like a standard guitar? Will it then tune closer to a standard guitar?

I know this may sound weird but I can hear the difference when I play a BF equipt guitar as opposed to a standard one

Particularly usually I can tune a guitar without a tuner by ear just by playing 2 strings together - I cannot do this on a BF guitar (and I'm not sure i want to learn after 35 years)

Any thoughts guys?
 

chasenblues

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
21,324
Reaction score
32,305
From the little i know about the Buzz Feiten "method or system" wouldn't what you want to do defeat the whole purpose of having it in the first place?
 

Freddy G

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
18,283
Reaction score
50,808
Oh sure. You can intonate a BF set-up guitar in a regular fashion.
 

jay1williams

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
1,171
Excellent, Thanks!!

My ear just can't deal with the flattened strings, especially when switching between normal and BF guitars, so I'll intonate the BF one to standard...
 

David Collins

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
1,066
Reaction score
798
They will work just fine intonated normally. The prescribed offsets are at very best, of questionable value, as they are a very averaged generic layout for an application where actual needs can vary widely from one instrument or player to another. Beyond that, in spite of the offsets being portrayed to impress some tight precision, they are below what amounts to typical range of error in real world applications.

Intonate and tune standard, and you end up with a regular guitar with a .030" compensated nut, which will be just fine.
 

Bill Hicklin

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
13,704
Reaction score
28,552
Let's not forget: it impossible for any guitar to be intonated perfectly - not unless it's fretless. (one could go further and say that any equal-tempered instrument can never be intonated perfectly)
 

Mindfrigg

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
59,849
Reaction score
327,979
The Feiten intonation sounds better with chromatic or stretch tuned keyboards. My opinion. But I think maybe that's a widely held opinion.
 

jay1williams

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
1,171
thanks guys! I intonated the "normal" way - 12th fret, 12th harmonic - sounds a treat! :thumb:
 

cmjohnson

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
3,363
Reaction score
3,126
The BF system is a compromise built on top of an already naturally compromised system. I can't say I ever cared for it. Particularly if you EVER change your tuning away from standard.

To me it's just a bottle of turd polish. Nothing I'm interested in buying or using.
 

Bill Hicklin

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
13,704
Reaction score
28,552
Feiten is really a master of capitalism, not guitar tech. Somehow he managed to get a patent on an idea that's been around since forever, nut compensation, and then surround it with sales puffery, and best of all his "licensed technician" money-minter.

It's just a compensated nut.
 

1981 LPC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
2,693
Reaction score
2,479
thanks guys! I intonated the "normal" way - 12th fret, 12th harmonic - sounds a treat! :thumb:
Unless you intend to play a lot of harmonics, intonating the 'normal' way should be: open string - 12th fret.

What I mean to say is that the 12th harmonic doesn't give you a valid measurement because it's not what you wanted to measure. At least that's how learned it. Others please chime in.
 

Skyjerk

Sausages
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
7,463
Reaction score
10,324
Feiten is really a master of capitalism, not guitar tech. Somehow he managed to get a patent on an idea that's been around since forever, nut compensation, and then surround it with sales puffery, and best of all his "licensed technician" money-minter.

It's just a compensated nut.

Its not just a compensated nut. In addition to that there are also tuning and intonation offsets.

I use buzz Feiten system on several of my builds, although the nuts themselves are not compensated.
I shortened the distance from the end of the fretboard to the center of the first fret by .03. (for a 25.5" scale length)

The nut itself is just an ordinary nut.

There are nuts you can use that do the compensation without altering the fretboard. Many prefer this because it doesnt
alter the fretboard and thus can be returned to normal if you want.
 

tolm

Bigsby Junkie
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
4,088
Reaction score
3,090
Doesn't that just make it a 25.47" scale length guitar? Or have I missed the point?!

I personally never understood the BF system - seemed a lot of marketing BS designed to hide any details of an actual "solution" buried in there ...

Now, Earvana compensated nuts I understand!
 

Skyjerk

Sausages
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
7,463
Reaction score
10,324
Doesn't that just make it a 25.47" scale length guitar? Or have I missed the point?!

I personally never understood the BF system - seemed a lot of marketing BS designed to hide any details of an actual "solution" buried in there ...

Now, Earvana compensated nuts I understand!

No. It's not a 25.47 scale. The change at the nut only affects strings when they are played open. As soon as you fret any string on any fret that change is negated. The position of the rest of the frets in relation to the bridge has not changed one bit, so the scale length hasn't changed.

Your "understanding" of the BF system is somewhat less than complete.

I have BF guitars, earvana guitars, and completely unaltered guitars. The BF guitars sound better, and play in tune anywhere on the neck, open strings, cowboy chords. Everything.

I'm not trying to push the system. It has its place. I don't like it on all my guitars, but I do on my 25.5" scale Floyded shredders

But learn what you are talking about before you declare it marketing hype :)
 

Bill Hicklin

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
13,704
Reaction score
28,552
I shortened the distance from the end of the fretboard to the center of the first fret by .03. (for a 25.5" scale length)

The nut itself is just an ordinary nut.

It's still a compensated nut, it's just compensated by moving it a touch in. Spanish classical builders have been doing it for over a century.

Now, you can get really spectacular results with individual string compensation at the nut (I've done it; fiddly but not really hard). The downside is, it's pretty much tailored to a single string set; if you do it with 11s it's all wrong with 9s.
 

David Collins

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
1,066
Reaction score
798
It's still a compensated nut, it's just compensated by moving it a touch in.

Right - whether shortening the nut end of the board, or installing a shelf nut, it still qualifies as compensation.

On defining scale length -

http://youtu.be/0yCLckbp8ps

And the limitations we have to work within -

http://youtu.be/ERF1Kk5kcR8

And touching on the effects of compensated nuts -

http://youtu.be/NEjekEOMWmg

Buried in a lot of other minutia of course, but each section contains some details relevant to the issue.
 

Skyjerk

Sausages
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
7,463
Reaction score
10,324
It's still a compensated nut, it's just compensated by moving it a touch in. Spanish classical builders have been doing it for over a century.

Now, you can get really spectacular results with individual string compensation at the nut (I've done it; fiddly but not really hard). The downside is, it's pretty much tailored to a single string set; if you do it with 11s it's all wrong with 9s.

My point wasn't that the nut is not compensated, but that it's the combination of the nut compensation, and the intonation and tuning offsets that make the system work.

It's not "just" a compensated nut, as one responder stated
 

Latest Threads



Top