Weird chord progression

[Adrian81]

Hi guys... I came across this weird chord progression... I try to decipher it...but I'm totally confused...


Verse

Csus2 – Fsus4 – Csus2 – Fmaj7 – Bflat – Eminor7 – Bflat – G – A

Chorus

D – Bm7 – G - A





I am sure that the key center of the chorus is D...but how many key centers in the verse? How many times is the verse modulating ?


Please help me if you know it ....

EDIT : Fsus 4 from Fmaj7

 

[huw]

Interesting sequence. How does it get back to the verse?

The chorus is as you say: straight forward D major I vi IV V.

The verse has I think (on quick examination) three tonal centres.

It starts in C (IMHO): The C & F chords are I & IV, all very normal.

It ends by modulating to D, ready for the chorus: the G to A move is IV V in D like in the chorus.

It what happens in the middle that's interesting. There's clearly a key shift at the Bb chord, but I think that it's the Em7 that really sounds odd. However, as an experiment substitute a G instead of the Em (G is the relative major of Em). Now the sequence seems less wierd, and stronger, because the Bb to G move happens twice. I'd call that as key of G (tonic chord) using a major bIII chord (the Bb) (view it as borrowed from G dorian if you like).

When you put the Em7 back in it's the same move IMHO, but disguised.

FWIW I prefer it with the substitute G (but don't tell the song's authors!).

By the way, what song is this? I'd like to hear it.

Disclaimer - I did that really quickly before going out. If I've made a glaring mistake I'm sorry!

 

[Adrian81]

Nice Huw... thank you very much... I know you are the man for music theory

It gets back to the verse by simply go directly to Csus2 from the last chord of the chorus (A)

The song is called "Kuingin" by Indonesian band "GIGI"... a pop song..but with cool chord progression

The structure of the band is quite unique...they have 2 guitarists...one from rock background... and one from jazz background...

Here is the youtube link for the song...you might not understand the lyrics...but the chord progression and the melody are cool ...

Ummhh.. I am sorry the chorus is :

D - Bm7 - Csus2 - G - A

Nice and unusual move in the chorus as well ... key center in D but contains Csus.. which is whole step down from D. I also realize that the verse contains Bflat (which is whole step down from the key center C in the verse) ... hmmm...weird but nice...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3jyh8juUw8&feature=related"]GIGI Kuingin - YouTube[/ame]

 

[huw]

Ok - that changes things.

Again, going quickly so I might miss something but...

That doesn't sound like an Em in the verse to me. It sounds like it falls only a half step from the Bb to an Am. Check it out - I may be off there but that's what I'm hearing.

That being so we have:

C F C F
Bb Am Bb G A

I'm hearing that as having a consistent key centre of C until the A chord, which is the V of D and sets up the key change for the chorus. The Am is the vi of C, so that's diatonic, and with that in mind I hear the Bb as a major bVII chord - a borrowing from C mixolydian, if you like.

Then in the chorus, that extra C chord is the same thing, a major bVII in the key of D. Thematically it also provides a little link back to the verse key.

So it's actually a lot simpler than I thought at first - verses in C, choruses in D, with a mixolydian bVII chord in each.

Does that mean I can copyright the CFCFBbGBbGA chord progression?

 

[Scooter2112]

I like the chorus progression, but I feel that the verse changes are too "busy" or something. Having seen it laid out like you've described makes sense though.

Not having the best ear for music, I can see where a confusion might exist between an Em and an Am. I find it difficult to differentiate those two at times.

 

[JonR]

I've given it a good listen (assisted by Transcribe, of course ), and I get these chords:

VERSE
|Csus2 - - - |Fadd9 - - - |Csus2 - - - |Fadd9 - - - |
|Bbsus2 - - - |Am9 - - - |Bbsus2 - - - |G - A - |

CHORUS
|D(sus4) - - - |Bm7 - - - |Csus2 - - - |G - A - |

Ie, I agree with huw about the A bass after the first Bb chord - there's a kind of Em triad on top, so it's easy to understand how it can be heard as that. But there is also a faint C in there, so it's not just Em/A.

The sus2s and add9s don't make any difference to the chord functions or key.

I guess (if you wanted) you could link the whole lot under a "D" umbrella, with the verse being consistent with a D minor tonality, and the chorus a mix of D major and mixolydian.

But C feels like key centre in the verse, with Bb as bVII and Am as vi, like huw says. Although the Am chord sounds a little unexpected when we hear it, it's the G major that's a surprise, IMO - which is odd if we're in a "C major key" context. Maybe it's because he makes a thing of singing the long B natural, right after we've got used to a Bb sound. (Normally in key of C, a bVII chord would be followed by either IV or I.)

In the chorus, I feel as if the C is making the G sound like the key chord when it arrives - and then being countered immediately by A again, of course. But then, that's part of the appeal of this typical mixture of major and parallel mixolydian; tonal ambiguity being a good thing (in moderation).

 

[LiveSimply]

Huw/Jon, I am amazed that you guys can pick that stuff out in such detail just by listening. I wish I could develop that sort of ability, but it seems there has to be some large amount of natural ability there to "develop".... did you guys actively train your ears to pick stuff like that out when you were younger?

 

[huw]

...did you guys actively train your ears to pick stuff like that out when you were younger?

For a while, yes. I went to music college and part of the weekly timetable was ear training. They way we mostly did it was either sight singing (ie singing a tune from sheet music without knowing it beforehand) and dictation (ie sitting with our backs to the piano whilst the teacher played a melody, then writing it down on score paper).

Having said that, I haven't done either of those for years & years - my ear stays "in shape" because I listen to a lot of music & play when I can (sadly not as much as I'd like these days).

One thing I do do these days (in an undisciplined, when I feel like it kind of a way) is to practice singing different intervals over a drone. There is a very good book called Harmonic Experience by WA Matthieu which begins with working in that way to familiarise you with the pitches, independantly of any instrument or temperament.

But that makes me sound a lot more serious about it that I am, really. I'm not.

 

[LiveSimply]

Thanks, Huw. It seems like it's something that I should try to develop then- at least at a rudimentary level. I'll check out that book. You gotta start somewhere, I guess. Sorry, Adrian, didn't mean to divert your thread there- sometimes stuff people can do just blows me away.

 

[Adrian81]

Does that mean I can copyright the CFCFBbGBbGA chord progression?

Hahahaha...I already try to steal it for my composition....


Man... I hope I have ears and musical theory as good as you guys here..

 

[Adrian81]

Thanks, Huw. It seems like it's something that I should try to develop then- at least at a rudimentary level. I'll check out that book. You gotta start somewhere, I guess. Sorry, Adrian, didn't mean to divert your thread there- sometimes stuff people can do just blows me away.

Haha..it's ok...

I'm also amazed by how Huw and Jon can decipher and analyze it on the fly....