Vintage p90's

ARandall

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Does anyone know what the variance is in the wind of these.....in terms of turn count?

I bought a set.....well actually a whole harness as well. In circuit measuring at the pots they are reading in the low 5's. I can't actually get a reading when measuring on the hookup leads.
 

mdubya

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If you plan to keep them, I'd get them to a good winder for an evaluation.

That number is low and it sounds like an issue.
 

RAG7890

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Alan, what year are they? Can you please post pics. What Caps are on the Harness, Grey Tigers? How large are the Magnets?

I'd have to check but I've seen as low as high 6's & as high as high 8's for P90's covering 1952 - 1958. I am sure there must be lower readings and there definitely are higher ones, especially in the later '50's & early '60's.

Not sure if I am imagining things but from memory, I seem to recall some even earlier P90's were lower; i.e. I am sure I have seen some Gibsons from the late '40's with lower values, albeit they were Dog Ears.

Who are you thinking of getting to check these? Might be worth calling Dave Ulbrick and / or Jim Cargill.

Cheers, Rudi
 

cooljuk

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Just how old are they? Gibson used much thicker wire, before making AWG 42 the standard for their guitar pickups (which had a tolerance four times looser than than it does today).

You'd need to take the pickup out of the circuit to get a truly accurate reading. You can disconnect the hookup lead's hot center from the small black wire coming off the coil and measure there if you don't want to unsolder the pickup from the harness. Either is intrusive, but perhaps this is less, and you can put the original tape back over it.

At the end of the day, if they are both reading near the same as each other and both working and sounding good, they probably don't have a problem and it's just the harness creating a path outside the coil. Unless these are REAL early!
 

ARandall

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Hey guys.....

The pickups were listed as being 1956....specifically from an ES 295. They have gold hardware bits (switch and polescrews).

Some big pics are below.

RAG - thanks for the names. Not sure about who to call TBH. Most people I know of wouldn't know the first thing about vintage p90's. At the moment they are sort of waiting for a guitar to go in.....but all of mine actually need partial disassembly of the harness to even check if they work properly.

James - thanks for the tip. They seem not to have tape.





 

copperheadroad

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Does anyone know what the variance is in the wind of these.....in terms of turn count?

I bought a set.....well actually a whole harness as well. In circuit measuring at the pots they are reading in the low 5's. I can't actually get a reading when measuring on the hookup leads.
Based on 10000 turns of 42 ga wire most I seen are in the high 7k to mid 8k range .

I have documented dozens of readings from old p-90's from the mid 50's up to the 70's & they are usually in the 6.8k to 9k range .
if you pickup is reading in the low 5 range it is probably partially shorted out .
but to make sure remove the hot wire from the circuit & take another reading as cooljuk suggested.
 

RAG7890

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No Tape & no Great Tigers. These obviously have Bees so obviously well after '54 / '55.

If you like I can check who the best option is re Jim or Dave. Dave just worked on taking PAF's out of one of Guitars on Monday & I know he comes highly rated for precision work on Vintage stuff.

I would also definitely take the PU's off the Harness & then recheck.

I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow.

Cheers, Rudi.
 

d1m1

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i saw these p90 with the harness and the custom switch on ebay couple times. they were removed from a 1957 es295. the seller started with $999, went to $899. then they disappeared for a while and listed again for $699, then for $599 and sold for $499.

in the beginning he listed them with higher outputs (8.57K and 11.77K). i wrote him that 11.77K seems a bit too high to be original. a while later when he relisted them again, the ouputs were changed to mid 5K which is kinda strange... this was the reason i passed even if the price was really good in the end.
 

mdubya

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They look great!

Definitely make sure whoever looks at them knows to "do no harm."

That may seem obvious, but better safe than sorry. I have had techs that should know better "assume" that I would "prefer" modifications that they "know" will sound "better." :facepalm:
 

Bluefox

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Readings taken through the whole harness can be very deceiving, but to make sure that everything is working properly i would send the whole thing to ReWind.
If something has to be repaired and at the same time kept original, James can do that in most cases, and sure he knows P 90s.
 

RAG7890

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Readings taken through the whole harness can be very deceiving, but to make sure that everything is working properly i would send the whole thing to ReWind.
If something has to be repaired and at the same time kept original, James can do that in most cases, and sure he knows P 90s.
I'd agree if they were in the USA / Canada but they are in Australia.

Just so you know, the guys I have recommended have been working on Vintage gear longer than James (who I happen to really like) has been making PU's.

Jim's Father rewound one of Jimmy Page's PU when LZ were here in 1972............& he still works there.

Dave has worked on many Vintage Guitars (& I mean many, a lot owned by a friend of mine). He just took a Set of my Vintage PAF's out of a Custom Guitar earlier this week..........with workmanship not often seen these days.

We don't have as many options here, as in the USA but we certainly have several. :)

:cheers2:
 

RAG7890

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i saw these p90 with the harness and the custom switch on ebay couple times. they were removed from a 1957 es295. the seller started with $999, went to $899. then they disappeared for a while and listed again for $699, then for $599 and sold for $499.

in the beginning he listed them with higher outputs (8.57K and 11.77K). i wrote him that 11.77K seems a bit too high to be original. a while later when he relisted them again, the ouputs were changed to mid 5K which is kinda strange... this was the reason i passed even if the price was really good in the end.
This ad would scare the crap out of me. :shock:

Still, might be a great find & at that price the Magnets (4) & Pots & Bees are worth more that what looks to have been paid.

:hmm:..................Alan, check those Magnets.............now! Wouldn't be the first time Vintage Longs have been nicked / exchanged for newer ones. :wow:

Cheers, Rudi
 

ARandall

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A couple of pics of the mags.





Looks like they've been in for a while
 

cooljuk

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I don't see anything wrong with the magnets, but all that oxidation does makes me concerned for the coils.
 

geetarfreek82

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Fyi Bill at ECP has been inside of dozens of old P-90's and could help you out. Also James from ReWind.
 

d1m1

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the mags look like they would sound great in paf clones ;)
 

d1m1

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They'll never sound as good as a real set of 50's P-90's though. :naughty:
i agree but if that set has been finally rewind (especially with wrong wire by a random winder) then maybe they wont sound that good as they did originally
 




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