TJR
Junior Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 65
Hi all. Sorry in advance for a very long post.
I'm posting today to share my problems I've had purchasing a guitar. If this is in the wrong place feel free to move it.
I'll start with a bit of background information. I've played guitar since I was around 13 years old and since then it's been a dream of mine to own a Les Paul, like I'm sure it was for everyone on this forum at some point. So this summer I decided to make this dream a reality, and save up as much as I could to accomplish this. I'm 22 and I'm on minimum wage but I finally managed to get enough money together after lots of hard work.
I went out to my local guitar shops and tried a lot of guitars but none of them felt like "the one", so i spent a lot of time looking online (perhaps this is contradictory, but I felt qualified after trying a few to find the specs I wanted)
I found the right guitar at the right price, however it was in the US, and I am in the UK. It was a little over 1k so I had to save up a little more but was able to borrow some money to complete the purchase. Obviously I'd heard about all the CITES regulations so I decided to do some research and this is what I found:
If it is proven to have been manufactured before the laws came into effect, the guitar can be imported with the correct paper work.
The CITES paperwork is the responsibility of the seller.
The website of the well known US retailer I bought from also reiterated this fact, so to me everything looked good. No paperwork on my end, fantastic.
I made the purchase and was very excited. There were a few weeks of delay after buying the guitar which o expected due to the paperwork involved, and I messaged the seller to confirm this and they confirmed that they were waiting for their CITES representative to notarize the paperwork.
I checked the tracking every day and finally it was in the UK! I couldn't contain my excitement until the estimated delivery date creeped backwards. I had previously received a few calls from UPS customer center but they kept ringing during my work hours and I had assumed it was just to confirm the delivery date.
They then sent me a letter, strangely dated 4 days before I had purchased the guitar, stating that they had tried to contact me regarding a customs declaration.
So I returned the call and explained the letter and I was then asked to send them my import and export CITES license. Strange. I told them what I had read on several websites and the retailers website and asked them to contact the seller for this.
They told me that the seller couldn't have filled in an import licence and that I should have had one in place before the guitar was delivered and told me to contact DEPRA, the CITES authority in the UK. So I rang them next. I was told that it's likely that the guitar will be seized by customs as it "seems like the guitar must be illegally in the country" and that I could be prosecuted for illegaly importing it. This would be if the correct paperwork was not in place, which is usually filled in by the retailer on behalf of the buyer. If the import license was not in place then I could apply for a "retroactive import license", but I was told that would likely be a waste of time as they "almost never grant them"
I then decided to make a call to the US in my panic in order to speak to the seller. They assured me that the guitar was legally in the country, that they would contact UPS to verify this and that they would make sure that I would get my guitar.
The next time I spoke to UPS, I explained what I had been told and asked them to contact the seller to get all the correct paperwork. They told me that the import license could not be filled in on my behalf and that I should have done it myself, despite me finding no information anywhere that states I should have done this.
I continued to contact the seller and they continued to tell me that they would resolve this and they also told me that this was odd as they had never had UPS contact a recipient for any paperwork before, but not to worry as they would resolve this matter.
Fast forward to today, and it is almost two months since I have purchased the guitar and I have received a call from UPS stating that they will be sending it to customs so that it can be seized and likely destroyed.
I've asked the seller what they can do as they told me numerous times that I would receive a full refund should anything stop me from receiving the guitar.
I don't know whether this ordeal is due to UPS losing the original paperwork in the document wallet as the seller suggested, the seller not completing the paperwork correctly, or my mistake due to the lack of clear CITES guidelines relating to guitars.
This whole mess has been horrible to deal with and I wanted to share it here to warn people who might be buying guitars from across borders. Don't take any chances regardless of the guitar or seller. Make sure your back is covered at every possible point. I expected at worst a few weeks wait while all the paperwork was verified. Now I'm worried that my money is gone, and the guitar is gone too. I'm hoping that I can get a refund but I'm worried it's unlikely if the guitar can't be sent back. In which case I'll have to attempt a charge back on the card. What should have been a great moment and my first Les Paul, has been a nightmare that doesn't look to have a happy ending.
Thanks for reading if you managed this far!
I'm posting today to share my problems I've had purchasing a guitar. If this is in the wrong place feel free to move it.
I'll start with a bit of background information. I've played guitar since I was around 13 years old and since then it's been a dream of mine to own a Les Paul, like I'm sure it was for everyone on this forum at some point. So this summer I decided to make this dream a reality, and save up as much as I could to accomplish this. I'm 22 and I'm on minimum wage but I finally managed to get enough money together after lots of hard work.
I went out to my local guitar shops and tried a lot of guitars but none of them felt like "the one", so i spent a lot of time looking online (perhaps this is contradictory, but I felt qualified after trying a few to find the specs I wanted)
I found the right guitar at the right price, however it was in the US, and I am in the UK. It was a little over 1k so I had to save up a little more but was able to borrow some money to complete the purchase. Obviously I'd heard about all the CITES regulations so I decided to do some research and this is what I found:
If it is proven to have been manufactured before the laws came into effect, the guitar can be imported with the correct paper work.
The CITES paperwork is the responsibility of the seller.
The website of the well known US retailer I bought from also reiterated this fact, so to me everything looked good. No paperwork on my end, fantastic.
I made the purchase and was very excited. There were a few weeks of delay after buying the guitar which o expected due to the paperwork involved, and I messaged the seller to confirm this and they confirmed that they were waiting for their CITES representative to notarize the paperwork.
I checked the tracking every day and finally it was in the UK! I couldn't contain my excitement until the estimated delivery date creeped backwards. I had previously received a few calls from UPS customer center but they kept ringing during my work hours and I had assumed it was just to confirm the delivery date.
They then sent me a letter, strangely dated 4 days before I had purchased the guitar, stating that they had tried to contact me regarding a customs declaration.
So I returned the call and explained the letter and I was then asked to send them my import and export CITES license. Strange. I told them what I had read on several websites and the retailers website and asked them to contact the seller for this.
They told me that the seller couldn't have filled in an import licence and that I should have had one in place before the guitar was delivered and told me to contact DEPRA, the CITES authority in the UK. So I rang them next. I was told that it's likely that the guitar will be seized by customs as it "seems like the guitar must be illegally in the country" and that I could be prosecuted for illegaly importing it. This would be if the correct paperwork was not in place, which is usually filled in by the retailer on behalf of the buyer. If the import license was not in place then I could apply for a "retroactive import license", but I was told that would likely be a waste of time as they "almost never grant them"
I then decided to make a call to the US in my panic in order to speak to the seller. They assured me that the guitar was legally in the country, that they would contact UPS to verify this and that they would make sure that I would get my guitar.
The next time I spoke to UPS, I explained what I had been told and asked them to contact the seller to get all the correct paperwork. They told me that the import license could not be filled in on my behalf and that I should have done it myself, despite me finding no information anywhere that states I should have done this.
I continued to contact the seller and they continued to tell me that they would resolve this and they also told me that this was odd as they had never had UPS contact a recipient for any paperwork before, but not to worry as they would resolve this matter.
Fast forward to today, and it is almost two months since I have purchased the guitar and I have received a call from UPS stating that they will be sending it to customs so that it can be seized and likely destroyed.
I've asked the seller what they can do as they told me numerous times that I would receive a full refund should anything stop me from receiving the guitar.
I don't know whether this ordeal is due to UPS losing the original paperwork in the document wallet as the seller suggested, the seller not completing the paperwork correctly, or my mistake due to the lack of clear CITES guidelines relating to guitars.
This whole mess has been horrible to deal with and I wanted to share it here to warn people who might be buying guitars from across borders. Don't take any chances regardless of the guitar or seller. Make sure your back is covered at every possible point. I expected at worst a few weeks wait while all the paperwork was verified. Now I'm worried that my money is gone, and the guitar is gone too. I'm hoping that I can get a refund but I'm worried it's unlikely if the guitar can't be sent back. In which case I'll have to attempt a charge back on the card. What should have been a great moment and my first Les Paul, has been a nightmare that doesn't look to have a happy ending.
Thanks for reading if you managed this far!
