A popular thread here is often a variation of "what is the best Tweed Deluxe clone". We know the answers will Clark and Victoria suggested with high marks. Other builders,Cox, Li'l Dawg, Mojo and even Fender itself will get mentions. I've been lucky enough to own and try two different flavors and I thought I'd just tell of my findings.
First off, yes they all sound different, Great to one will be Meh to another. My two are/were both great, different and each worth owning. The Vic is very true to Tweed, very true to what Leo built. The Dawg is not. Some cap values are changed, maybe in some cases to what they would drift to over 50 years.
In Dec of 2012 I was home with Bronchitus and bought a Victoria 20112 off ebay for a very fair price. I figured that the Vic was one of the best to buy because A, it is one of the best and B, I could resell it for what I paid. Both turned out to be true. I really liked it and I sold it for what I paid for it. I needed some IRS cash so I sold it. As soon as I sold it I was shopping for another variant of 5E3 or other Tweed.
I bought from a TGP'er a Li'l Dawg 5E3 clone. Very fair price and it had some desirable options I had been wondering about. It has Mercury PT and OT trannies, the regular 12 watt set up. Sozo Blue molded caps and the Paul C/Ampeg mod. So some nice option boxes were clocked off. The Sozos I found when I got the amp are not stock 5E3 values. They are what might be called spec'd for Humbuckers. So they are (memory here), 22 and 44 values, not the 1 Meg? stock values. You know what I mean. They filter the excessive bass the HB's may put out.
I spoke with Jim the builder and he said my amp is the amp used for the Deluxe clips on his site. A 5V4 rectifier was included with the amp. To be sure I asked him about it and he said of course the amp is a little tighter and louder with the 5V4 than the 5Y3. He said I could use a GZ34 too if I wanted. Also I could use not just 6V6 but 5881 or 6L6 power tubes if I liked. Very cool. He said he builds all his Deluxes to use these optional tubes. Nice.
I've had it for a month or so. My regular guitar is an R4 with a few parts changed out but essentially an R4. I also have a JR and a Tele I built up out of parts.
The two amps are different yet the Dawg is as Tweed as the Vic where it matters. I'll try to list the differences in a way that makes sense.
The volume taper of the Dawg is a little less abrupt than the Vic. It is still loud at "3" but more happens below "3" on the Dawg than the Vic which was near silent till "2.7" on the knob. In either case both amps reach near full volume early on with higher number adding grind as you turn it up.
I think there is more difference in the tone of the two channels on the Dawg than there is on the Vic.
The Dawg stays clean (just for reference I mean Tweed clean, not BF clean) longer than the Vic. The Vic had the most wonderful Tweed clean. Nice amount of hair and glitter around the notes and chords. The Dawg has a little less of that. I think this is the Paul C mod I hear here. I believe that I read that the Paul C mod makes the clipping symetrical, where the stock 5E3 is is asymetrical. That might be what I hear. There is just a little something more musical about the Vic in that area. In contrast the Dawg just sounds really good. If I hadn't had the Vic I'd have no idea and make no comment. I've read the same thing about a Clark vs a Vic so I may be wrong. No two sound alike right?
There is less bass in the Dawg than the Vic and I like that. Even with P90's I could make the Vic fart out with several of the speakers I tried. The Dawg pretty much has no fart out tendancies. Credit the cap values there and maybe the Paul C mod. The extra bass also I think adds to the distortion coming on early but that is also a loved trait of 5E3's.
I really like the Weber 12A125A speaker in the Dawg. I had one in another amp and hated it. In the Vic I tried several speakers. I really liked and settled on the Weber 12F150B in the Vic. I don't like that speaker as much in the Dawg. I didn't like any Alnicos I tried in the Vic very much. I even gave a thumbs down to the Tungsten T12Q in the Vic.
So the Vic sounded best to me with a ceramic, the Dawg so far sounds best with Alnico. I like the way the ceramic tamed the Tweed meltdown pure filth of the Vic. The Dawg is by spec a little tighter and less raw with less farting bass. So because of that I seem to like the Alnico.
I do have a Celestion G12H30 installed in the Clark cab to try with the Dawg. That speaker was very bassy with the Vic but had a very Marshally tone. That part I liked, the bass I didn't. So with the Dawg being less bassy it could be a good match.
Another thing I notice, the Dawg has a one inch deeper cab. Jim said this was a "Better Built" cab, not Mather that he uses now. The construction is every bit as good as the Mojo of the Vic or a Mojo built Clark cab I have also. Just a fantastic Tweed box BUT I noticed with both Mojo cabs that they just ring. When you put them down on a floor that kinda ring as the metal feet land. The Dawg cab is duller. Is that because it is an inch deeper? Dunno but I hear it. I may for kicks put the Dawg chassis into the Clark/Mojo cab. Why not right?
So I love this Dawg amp. The window of wonderful was very narrow for me on the Vic. Full out Tweed meltdown ain't my thing. The Vic could go from a beautiful tone to "what the hell chord are you playing?" while the Dawg is a little more composed at the lose of a little "glitter". The window of wonderful is wider with more variations for me because it is wider.
It is still very dynamic, compresses well and responds like a good tweed should. It is still an amp where you've got to use the volume knob on the guitar to get what it offers. It can still get that Hendrix with a fuzz box tone that goes so well with the neck pickup of a good Fender. It is still all Tweed but a little more behaved.
I rambled. Hope this is of some use to those who wonder, "who makes the best Tweed clone?"
Neil
Edit/Delete Message
First off, yes they all sound different, Great to one will be Meh to another. My two are/were both great, different and each worth owning. The Vic is very true to Tweed, very true to what Leo built. The Dawg is not. Some cap values are changed, maybe in some cases to what they would drift to over 50 years.
In Dec of 2012 I was home with Bronchitus and bought a Victoria 20112 off ebay for a very fair price. I figured that the Vic was one of the best to buy because A, it is one of the best and B, I could resell it for what I paid. Both turned out to be true. I really liked it and I sold it for what I paid for it. I needed some IRS cash so I sold it. As soon as I sold it I was shopping for another variant of 5E3 or other Tweed.
I bought from a TGP'er a Li'l Dawg 5E3 clone. Very fair price and it had some desirable options I had been wondering about. It has Mercury PT and OT trannies, the regular 12 watt set up. Sozo Blue molded caps and the Paul C/Ampeg mod. So some nice option boxes were clocked off. The Sozos I found when I got the amp are not stock 5E3 values. They are what might be called spec'd for Humbuckers. So they are (memory here), 22 and 44 values, not the 1 Meg? stock values. You know what I mean. They filter the excessive bass the HB's may put out.
I spoke with Jim the builder and he said my amp is the amp used for the Deluxe clips on his site. A 5V4 rectifier was included with the amp. To be sure I asked him about it and he said of course the amp is a little tighter and louder with the 5V4 than the 5Y3. He said I could use a GZ34 too if I wanted. Also I could use not just 6V6 but 5881 or 6L6 power tubes if I liked. Very cool. He said he builds all his Deluxes to use these optional tubes. Nice.
I've had it for a month or so. My regular guitar is an R4 with a few parts changed out but essentially an R4. I also have a JR and a Tele I built up out of parts.
The two amps are different yet the Dawg is as Tweed as the Vic where it matters. I'll try to list the differences in a way that makes sense.
The volume taper of the Dawg is a little less abrupt than the Vic. It is still loud at "3" but more happens below "3" on the Dawg than the Vic which was near silent till "2.7" on the knob. In either case both amps reach near full volume early on with higher number adding grind as you turn it up.
I think there is more difference in the tone of the two channels on the Dawg than there is on the Vic.
The Dawg stays clean (just for reference I mean Tweed clean, not BF clean) longer than the Vic. The Vic had the most wonderful Tweed clean. Nice amount of hair and glitter around the notes and chords. The Dawg has a little less of that. I think this is the Paul C mod I hear here. I believe that I read that the Paul C mod makes the clipping symetrical, where the stock 5E3 is is asymetrical. That might be what I hear. There is just a little something more musical about the Vic in that area. In contrast the Dawg just sounds really good. If I hadn't had the Vic I'd have no idea and make no comment. I've read the same thing about a Clark vs a Vic so I may be wrong. No two sound alike right?
There is less bass in the Dawg than the Vic and I like that. Even with P90's I could make the Vic fart out with several of the speakers I tried. The Dawg pretty much has no fart out tendancies. Credit the cap values there and maybe the Paul C mod. The extra bass also I think adds to the distortion coming on early but that is also a loved trait of 5E3's.
I really like the Weber 12A125A speaker in the Dawg. I had one in another amp and hated it. In the Vic I tried several speakers. I really liked and settled on the Weber 12F150B in the Vic. I don't like that speaker as much in the Dawg. I didn't like any Alnicos I tried in the Vic very much. I even gave a thumbs down to the Tungsten T12Q in the Vic.
So the Vic sounded best to me with a ceramic, the Dawg so far sounds best with Alnico. I like the way the ceramic tamed the Tweed meltdown pure filth of the Vic. The Dawg is by spec a little tighter and less raw with less farting bass. So because of that I seem to like the Alnico.
I do have a Celestion G12H30 installed in the Clark cab to try with the Dawg. That speaker was very bassy with the Vic but had a very Marshally tone. That part I liked, the bass I didn't. So with the Dawg being less bassy it could be a good match.
Another thing I notice, the Dawg has a one inch deeper cab. Jim said this was a "Better Built" cab, not Mather that he uses now. The construction is every bit as good as the Mojo of the Vic or a Mojo built Clark cab I have also. Just a fantastic Tweed box BUT I noticed with both Mojo cabs that they just ring. When you put them down on a floor that kinda ring as the metal feet land. The Dawg cab is duller. Is that because it is an inch deeper? Dunno but I hear it. I may for kicks put the Dawg chassis into the Clark/Mojo cab. Why not right?
So I love this Dawg amp. The window of wonderful was very narrow for me on the Vic. Full out Tweed meltdown ain't my thing. The Vic could go from a beautiful tone to "what the hell chord are you playing?" while the Dawg is a little more composed at the lose of a little "glitter". The window of wonderful is wider with more variations for me because it is wider.
It is still very dynamic, compresses well and responds like a good tweed should. It is still an amp where you've got to use the volume knob on the guitar to get what it offers. It can still get that Hendrix with a fuzz box tone that goes so well with the neck pickup of a good Fender. It is still all Tweed but a little more behaved.
I rambled. Hope this is of some use to those who wonder, "who makes the best Tweed clone?"
Neil
Edit/Delete Message
) the 'tweeds' I've heard recently are all clones, all home made, and they all sound different.
