Turkey had a good run

KTM

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Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

...

He's also caused quite a few collegiate types to be incarcerated. I'm not sure what the current numbers are, but last time I checked it was a couple hundred professors, and then a large number of deans. Over four hundred university administrative staffers were also part of the college roundup. For some reason, he also saw fit to arrest close to 700 university janitors.

That last part, I don't get. He caused the arrest of 700 college janitors? How influential could a janitor be? But there you have it anyway. :dunno:

...

--R

:hmm:

Perhaps he thought they were they were collecting dirt on him, or making sweeping accusations against him. :dunno:
 

Roberteaux

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I'm not aware of any instance in history where the ruler of a republic who sought and was granted sweeping "emergency" powers ever relinquished those powers voluntarily.

Very rare indeed.

All I can think of off hand is the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act 1863 and the subsequent Second Enforcement Act of 1871... but both of those measures were very short-lived and highly specific whereas those targeted by the measures were concerned.

Other than that, I agree that throughout history we've seen that such powers, once granted, are rarely relinquished by any means other than direct force against those who seized control of a nation via suspension of civil rights. The acts I mentioned above were small time stuff, compared to what Erdogan has managed to pull off.

Given the fact that the bulk of Erdogan's supporters are not exactly in favor of a secular government or a system of checks and balances to begin with, I'd put my money on a bet that said Erdogan will never actually restore the republic to its previous form.

Could be some hard times ahead for the people of Turkey.

--R
 

Bill Hicklin

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Other than that, I agree that throughout history we've seen that such powers, once granted, are rarely relinquished by any means other than direct force against those who seized control of a nation via suspension of civil rights. The acts I mentioned above were small time stuff, compared to what Erdogan has managed to pull off.

It was in the context of that history that George III said, on being informed that George Washington would step down and go home to his farm, "If he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world." Washington could have, had he wanted to, become a military dictator or even a king. He wasn't interested.

Not for nothing did Washington's officers name their society after Cincinnatus, the Roman emergency dictator who won his war, saved the Republic and then retired.
 

Deus Vult

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I'm not aware of any instance in history where the ruler of a republic who sought and was granted sweeping "emergency" powers ever relinquished those powers voluntarily.

Although Caesar was assassinated, he was succeeded by his great-nephew and adopted son Octavianus who soon renamed himself "The Majestic," Augustus; the Republic was dead.

Cincinnatus
 

Dolebludger

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I hate to think this, but I have to wonder if the people of Turkey might just not want Democracy anymore. Maybe they WANT a dictatorship. If so, I guess that is their business, and none of mine. Except that I am not planning a trip to Turkey any time soon.
 

MikeyTheCat

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I'm not sure why they would want a dictator. It's not like they're a bunch of bumpkins living in some cultural backwater. They're a modern nation that interacts with both the West and Mid-East.
 

Bill Hicklin

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Cincinnatus

Assuming he actually lived and wasn't just a legend.

Then I suppose there was Sulla- but he retired only after he had become bored with years of absolute-dictating and had run out of enemies to execute.
 

Bill Hicklin

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I'm not sure why they would want a dictator. It's not like they're a bunch of bumpkins living in some cultural backwater. They're a modern nation that interacts with both the West and Mid-East.

Outside Istanbul, they're pretty much a bunch of bumpkins living in some cultural backwater.
 

Sharky

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Erdogan has done a lot for Turkey.

with very friendly help of the european economy, that's about it. They wouldn't be anywhere close to that without their exports to EU countries and tourism, which broke down since Erdogan started his autocratic attitude and his fascist reaction to the Gezi-Park protests and after the "military coup" with ten thousands arrested, judges, scientists and so on fired, parliament paralysed, administration replaced with his followers.

The price, he was willing to let his people pay, is incredibly high

I do respect a decision democratically made by all people, which was not the case on this "election"
 

Sharky

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I'm not sure why they would want a dictator. It's not like they're a bunch of bumpkins living in some cultural backwater. They're a modern nation that interacts with both the West and Mid-East.


The modern part of Turkey voted more than NO. The YES votes came from the rural parts mostly, plus the Turks living in the european countries outside Turkey. I don't know why they are allowed to vote at all. I am danish living in Germany and I am not allowed to vote for the danish parliament, nor for the german. I'm only allowed to vote in county elections like next weekend
 

Sharky

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and I suppose that most can see were this is drifting to. You'all know what the hand sign thumbs into palm mean, don't you?

Part-PAR-Par7837252-1-1-0.jpg


and this handsign by the turkish minister of foreign affairs is nothing heavy metal related if you might think so

4,w=1298,q=low,c=0.bild.jpg
 

Deus Vult

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All 3 had a majority of their respective nations behind them.

As we are always bombed with the democracy thing, that's what it is.
Democracy = Demos kratos = demos (population) + kratos (power)

From memory President Putin won nearly 90% of votes at the last elections.
Does that tell you something?

Opinion of another nation is irrelevant when a majority of a country's population has its opinion as to who needs to rule them.

In addition, during the recent elections in the US it was assumed that Russia tried to influence the elections. The US strongly objected to that, because of foreign interference with its democratic process.

The same applies to the rest of the world, thus the Sovereignty of each nation should be respected, regardless of ones opinion.

Like how your country respected Ukraine?:laugh2:

You should at least be intellectually honest.
 

Gooner

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It is also very difficult for us as full blown, certified, Westerners, to understand that despite being attached to Europe, Turkey has a very different culture and psyche. Thus making comprehension of how they think as individuals almost impossible. Do they want a "dictator"? They may be quite happy to have a single person with ultimate power, like Iran. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Ayatollah have control of the Iranians, who in the most, seem quite content with that situation?
 

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