Tubes and AC heaters warning.

martin H

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Thought I'd mention a long running amp problem that I’ve just solved so perhaps someone else won’t go through the same process:

A couple of years a go I set to restoring my 50W JMP Marshall 1987 head. I replaced all the smoothing capacitors, and got a complete set of tube to replace the mismatched bits and pieces that had gradually replaced the stock tubes. After reading a number of reviews, I chose Tung-Sol’s for their “bright detailed almost hi-fi tone.”

When I was finished, I noticed that the amp seemed to hum more than it used to. No amount of checking my work revealed any problem. The high voltage rail was clean. I even tried putting the old smoothing caps back in, with no success.

I finally took it Ito my local tech who kept it for a month, and announced he could get it to behave a little better by moving wiring but that, the hum was a design flaw in the Marshall because it used AC heater current.

(As a quick primer, the heater is the hot glowing wire in the tube. It typically requires about 6-12 volts across it to make it glow properly. Ac or Dc current will produce the same effect, but AC is a little cheaper to use, circuitry wise. I knew that older HI FI amps always used DC heater current in the front stages because the AC current gave off a field in the tube that could induce 60 cycle hum into the signal path. )

However I was still faced with the fact my Marshall, with AC heaters, used to not hum, and now it did. After a good deal of research, I found out the hum induced by an AC heater can be reduced considerably by the way the heater coil is wound physically inside the tube. “General” application tubes are usually wound this way, while “hi-fi” tubes are not , beause ther assumption is that, in a HI FI amp, the heater current will be DC

I replaced the Tung Sol preamp tubes with Mullards, and the hum, was gone. Later research showed that the Tung-Sol’s didn’t have heaters wound for AC current , and the amps they were tested in for the review all used DC heater current

Moral – if you change a pre amp tube, and the amp hums, it may have the wrong sort of heater winding
 

Cygnus X1

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Are all new production Tung Sol preamp tubes this way?
Is there a labeling difference to look for?

I have used recent production Tung Sols and did not notice an issue.

Only one of note is not to use them in cathode follower positions.
I stopped buying them at that point.
Don't want to have to sort the tubes in order to figure out what goes where.
 

martin H

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Are all new production Tung Sol preamp tubes this way?
Is there a labeling difference to look for?

I have used recent production Tung Sols and did not notice an issue.

Only one of note is not to use them in cathode follower positions.
I stopped buying them at that point.
Don't want to have to sort the tubes in order to figure out what goes where.

I'll take a look at the specific ones I was using and see how they are marked. When I decided to try diffent tubes I lookd at an old 1962 Bogen tuner amplifier that was in my closet. Whe I pulled the cans off, all the pre amp tubes were ORIGINAL 1962 MULLARD ECC83/12AX7s. Three of these immediately went into the Mashall,and the Tung-Sol's went into the Bogen. How do those 1962 Mullards sound? - BLOODY GREAT.

I found a better explaination of the phenomena ona hi fi amp baord:

"Some 12AX7s are "humbucking" in that they have a spiral wound filament that aims to cancel out magnetically induced hum. This works on a per-tube-section basis irrespective of filament polarity or 6V/12V configuration. All NOS 12AX7s and EF86s that I know of had the spiral filament, but I'm not sure about new production tubes."
 

babatube

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thanks for the info.
i had the same issue with my marshall clone.
had a tung sol in V1 which sounded awesome but man it was noisy.
it was humming and crackling.
put EH12AX7 gold in there (same design as the tungsol .different materials) hum gets worse.
changed V1 to a sovtek, *poof* hum disappears.
the amp is dead quiet now.with AC heaters!

in another hi gain build same issue.
EH12AX7 in V1 and it hums like crazy.
put a sovtek 12AX7LPS in.hum goes away.

i don't know if it's a design thing or just bad production.
the tung sol has spiral filament same as the EH12AX7,and sovtek 12AX7LPS and mullard reissue.
but some of them hum and some of them not:dunno:
 

jason_mazzy

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I added tungsols to my amp a while back and it is more hummy. These are the 6l6 replacements. Any suggestions on something like this but wound the correct way?
 

jason_mazzy

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Any vintage tubes that are known to have the right hifi type
 

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