True Historic Murphy aged - opinions?

Alexsky1

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I dunno about that...

...some of the TH's are exceptional...


Agreed, Pay the extra money and get the closest thing to a true 59 on the planet without paying 6 figures. I own 2 HM RDS and they are exceptional guitars. Kim does amazing work, but the new THs are closer to the real 1959s and it is evident when you play one. A HM cannot redo the hot hide glue bond between the maple top and mahogany back. I believe that is a major factor that makes the THs a cut above the rest. It simply resonates better throughout the entire instrument. IMHO, and based on playing and owning many Les Pauls over the years. I would put my 2015 TH up against a real 59 in a blindfolded test and I would guarantee you would not be able to tell which is which.



 

homenote

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Agreed, Pay the extra money and get the closest thing to a true 59 on the planet without paying 6 figures. I own 2 HM RDS and they are exceptional guitars. Kim does amazing work, but the new THs are closer to the real 1959s and it is evident when you play one. A HM cannot redo the hot hide glue bond between the maple top and mahogany back. I believe that is a major factor that makes the THs a cut above the rest. It simply resonates better throughout the entire instrument. IMHO, and based on playing and owning many Les Pauls over the years. I would put my 2015 TH up against a real 59 in a blindfolded test and I would guarantee you would not be able to tell which is which.




:hmm:

I dunno bout that.. I have not owned either and have no dog in this (im more a replica guy anyway :D) but, i have played a 58 GT , Kims 52 GT and have owned a Max, Italian Job and 2 GY Burst that I personally compared to Kims GT and 4 RDS's.

1. I dont think they even used HG under the top on real Burst. (Sounds like some marketing 101, imho) Im pretty sure its only the 'neck join' that has HG on burst, fwtw..

2. I dont think a mass production operation can come close to what Kim & Co do as far as; the time put in on 'working the guitar' and all the OCD like details.
3. As with all of this, every geet should be evaluated Individually. Sorry but statements like "all TH's are better than older historics" or " My TH is exactly the same, as any or all 1959 Burst" doesnt ring true to my ears. (Just doesn't sound logical to me) For example, the two '14 RTG, RDS's, (Historics that are 'hand picked' by Kim and receive the full RDS treatment from the git go) I played at HM were way better guitars (to my ears figers and hands) then the TH's i have checked out so far, i mean these things resonated like frek'n tunning forks! ;-) but im sure i will come across THs that will be exceptional guitars too, eventually. All just imho, of course. :thumb:
 

Sct13

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I dunno about that...

...some of the TH's are exceptional...

As I have no doubt that there are some excellnt examples coming out of Gibson.

However, as stated the attention to detail is better with an HM....Gibson is getting it however...
 

indravayu

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1. I dont think they even used HG under the top on real Burst. (Sounds like some marketing 101, imho) Im pretty sure its only the 'neck join' that has HG on burst, fwtw..

They didn't, but the glue that they did use on the caps has very similar properties to hide glue - so it is much more true to the originals than rubbery Franklin Titebond (as used on non-THs).
 

homenote

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They didn't, but the glue that they did use on the caps has very similar properties to hide glue - so it is much more true to the originals than rubbery Franklin Titebond (as used on non-THs).

:hmm: Very interesting, I did not know that.
 

homenote

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Hey indravayu, after some searching, i couldnt seem to find any info on this. Do u have a link handy by any chance? (Sorry, if im geeking out here lol)


Personally i always felt the finish, paint, hg in the neck join combined w the right metal parts mattered the most. I also prefer a nice BRW board on my pauls but that is such a personal thing.

Great post! :thumb:
 

KBMelb

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From my Years of working in a custom furniture shop and working with Titebond, I was really surprised to hear that was the glue used. To me the extensive use of hide glue on THs just seem to be a cherry on top and a welcomed upgrade even if it isn't historically correct. Regardless of what Gibson used on 50s era LPs these 3 opinions are interesting and would lead me to believe hide glue may have been used for everything.

I've pulled the quotes pertaining to glue incase you don't read through all the articles.

Glues Used in Making Musical Instruments | A Psimple Psaltery
"Hot hide glue (granular glue dissolved in hot water) – Available at woodworking stores like Rockler and Woodcraft, (check for local stores near you), as well as some online and specialty stores. Probably the best glue for creep resistance, and widely used by luthiers. Hide glue requires you to dissolve the glue in a double boiler glue pot full of hot water. One of the trademarks of this glue is that it is reversible with heat/humidity – a handy feature for builders of guitars or violins when they need to pop the top off and adjust something inside the instrument – though this is not something that is of much value on a bowed psaltery, as there are scores of pins and strings in the top, and in my opinion, should be constructed permanently. For everything that you ever wanted to know about hide glue, visit the page on hide glue at frets.com. I wouldn’t recommend hide glue to beginners because it requires more experience to use properly, and is not good at filling gaps in joinery."

Haxton Instruments » Blog » Glues used in Luthier
"Hot Hide Glue: used almost exclusively in the industry until the early 1960’s it’s main attributes are its ability to create a very strong bond, that dose not move when exposed to heat, it also comes apart cleanly for repair work. There is a lot of mystique concerning Hide Glue; it was certainly used on the highly coveted instruments of the past. My theory is that because it creates a thin, hard bond, it dose a superior job of allowing vibrations (string energy) to flow thru the instrument with minimal obstructions therefore increasing efficiency, I use this glue for gluing plates together and attaching braces.
The drawbacks are that because the glue has to be heated, it gels quickly at room temperature so work time is reduced to a minute or less, also it dose not like any kind of contamination on the work surfaces and because it is so thin it dose a poor job of gap filling."

The new age of hand craftsmanship; changes in materials, production techniques, finishes, etc. | Gruhn Guitars
"In addition to wood it should be noted that prior to World War II, hide glue was the standard in guitar production, whereas today white glue and a variety of synthetics are used. The hide glue was messy and smelly and in some cases not as strong as the new synthetics, but the tonal results of instruments produced with hide glue, in my opinion, are generally better, and instruments constructed with hide glue are certainly more easy to repair since this glue is heat and moisture sensitive, facilitating taking joints apart when necessary."
 

indravayu

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Hey indravayu, after some searching, i couldnt seem to find any info on this. Do u have a link handy by any chance? (Sorry, if im geeking out here lol)

Legendary luthier Max Baranet who knows a thing or two (or five) about Bursts, said the following on the other forum[/URL] back in 2012:

"yes it is true that gibson did not use hide glue to join the maple top to the body .. i wrote 'Five Factors' back in 1980 (originally it was titled 'Four Factors' and i updated it) ..

i was just trying to keep it short and simple ..

hot hide glue was used on the neck joint and to attach the fretboard because it made repairs easy .. luckily it was also a perfect glue as it enhanced the tone of the instrument instead of deadening it as do modern glues used in manufacturing

the maple top was glued to the body with a laminating glue which also crystalized like glass and enhanced the tonal performance of the instrument

the important factor is that both glues crystalize like glass and enable the four separate pieces of the guitar (fretboard, neck, body, top) to vibrate as one .. unlike todays manufacturing glues which actually insulate the four separate pieces from each other and kill the tone"​
 

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