Transparent Tint Stains not dissolving in Nitro Thinner?

[johnP-90]

Hi Folks,

I have been having a spraying nighmare with using stewmac colortone trans stains, not dissolving in my latest batch of Clostermann's Nitro "anti bloom" thinners. Caused all kinds of problems staining my flame maple veneer having rubbed the same stain in alc (meths) but when I sprayed the black stain in nitro thinners n dash of lacquer all kinds of sink hole appeared. Like silicon contamination

I had to rip off the finish with a cabinet scraper a couple of times to realise the stain was not dissolving in the a/b thinner, only pure acetone as a buffer but dissolved in anc, water, meth yo name it! It also mixed well with the batch of "standard nitro thinner" without the anti bloom additive, strange or wot?
The stain is a few years old now and acid based so maybe time to chuck it away as never had this happen before. But suspicious how it still dissolves in everything but latest batch of a/b thinner, hmmm.

Having had major problems with the black stain not fully dissolving, I found the same mixing a few drops of red mahogany into some a/b thinner when the penny dropped and had to reduce it in acetone first. I dont think it is the stewmac stain as great stuff, but why not dissolving in an anti bloom thinner's?

Has anyone had anything similar, or is it a dodgy batch of a/b thinner?

Thanks, John

 

[B. Howard]

What is anti bloom thinner? been at this a long time and that';s a new on for me.

 

[Open_Book]

UK term for Retarder.

 

[Ripthorn]

One thing you can do with transtint is cut the thinner with alcohol, but test on scrap first. I did find that transtint requires more mixing in nitro than in alcohol or water. I also found out experimentally that it won't dissolve in naphtha (that's what happens when you have lots of cans of solvents on the bench at once)

 

[RandK]

Been there done that with the black dye. I had to strip and respray a top I was painting 5 times because of blotchy coverage and spitting of black chunks. Somewhere in all of that I decided my bottle was too old so I bought a new one from Woodcraft and it did exactly the same thing.

Colortone dye is private label Transtint dye from Homesteadfinishingproducts. They have a forum for help !

I contacted Jeff Jewitt, and he said to dissolve the dye in acetone and then slowly add the acetone to my reduced lacquer. You want at least 20-25% lacquer so there is some body to the toner. Make sure you have good atomization from the gun, you may want to turn up the pressure a little. Mix fresh what you are going to use and then toss it. The black has some pigment which will separate if given the chance. The yellow does also but is not so difficult.

Test spray on some scrap cardboard to get everything dialed in well.

 

[ARandall]

I've had that pit thing going on with a few guitars. The most recent was actually a headstock too.....but with new dye. In that case the pits occurred twice in a row....both times starting when the coat was applied perhaps too thickly, and only on one wood type (the headstock has a scarf joint with two wood types)

The only time recently when the dye wouldn't mix with me had a very different result. I was spraying the red of a burst when a section of the perimeter had the dye suddenly separate out like a spider web effect. It was odd, as the yellow had only just been put down about 10 mins back and I couldn't see how any contaminant could have landed in the area.

 

[fatdaddypreacher]

maybe i ain't doing it right, but i generally shoot my guitars with clear and block out till all imperfections (that i can deal with) are done, then simply add some color tint to a moderately thinned version of the lacquer clear i am shooting, and spray till i get the shade/density i want. let set, then top off with clear. never had a problem.

 

[fatdaddypreacher]

oops. reread your post. i'm not using the stain, i'm using their concentrated liquid color tints.

 

[marksoundguitars]

Is it powdered dye or liquid? (I speak American--didn't understand a bunch of the OP )

I have a few Trans Tint liquid colors and have never had problems with them in water, lacquer thinner, or acetone. Where I have had a problem is using the wrong solvent (denatured alcohol) for the effect I wanted, mainly in trying to use a toner over a clear coat. That looked a bit like fisheye, but it was the solvent not biting into the clear. Acetone fixed that. So now I just default to acetone to mix dye for toner.

If I want to dye bare wood, water or alcohol is fine. But I usually go ahead and use acetone anyway, because I always have it on hand.

 

[johnP-90]

Thanks guys, that was most informative.Yeah the problems was using a flame maple veneer and using strong trans stain black rather than pigment, to keep a little figure showing. I have always mixed the stain into a small amount of thinner, stir and add more thinner and a dash of lacquer. What I had not realised was the stain was not fully dissolving and the oily "bits" where causing the cratering.

I have not had this in 10 years of using these stains, but to be on the safe side will use acetone 20% as a buffer in future! I noticed the same thing adding just a few drops of red mahogany to the thinner mixed with retarder, (anti bloom) and it would not dissolve at all, except with acetone. Must be some strange chemistry thing as the stuff is suposed to slow drying time, but mixes ok in thinner without retarder.

I was thinking I needed a Preist and Bible for a minute! Or loosing the plot... The stains are fine methinks,. but you live and learn. Many thanks again for contributing on this as I was going to bin all my stains, for a minute. The "Nostalgic Burst" came out nice btw and finaly got it sprayed this afternoon after 2 weeks of prep and feking about with headstock stains, hmm.





Regards, John W.