Toronto police had shooter in their sights

upl8tr

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Have a read of the article below and let me know what you think, I don't really want to get into the right's and wrongs of this case, (tbh) I have no interest in what people's personal opinions are, the reason I'm posting this is to inquire just how these figures are worked out?

I will continue working, as I have done from my teens through to old age at least late sixties or early seventies and if I saved every penny I ever earned I wouldn't get withing a light year of earning 8.5 Million.

So where does that figure come from? is it just made up from case to case or is there a set criteria?


Toronto News: Toronto police had shooter in their sights - thestar.com

Kofi Patrong sits in his mother’s living room with his mangled left leg up, watching an episode of Intervention on the television in which a man who had been shot in the buttocks developed a serious addiction to painkillers.

It has Patrong’s undivided attention.

He was hit in his legs by three bullets while sitting in his backyard one afternoon in April 2004. The shooter, Tyshan Riley, one of Toronto’s most notorious killers, mistakenly believed Patrong, then 19, to be a member in a rival gang.

What Patrong did not know anything about at the time — and only recently learned through a court ruling this spring — is that Toronto police were watching Riley, a murder suspect in a drive-by shooting, believed him to be a serious threat to public safety, had opportunities to arrest him, yet did not.

Patrong, who was wounded in the shooting along with friend Christopher Hyatt, was floored when he learned this.

“Something’s not right here,” Patrong, now 26, said in an interview, “and I realized that the situation that happened to me and Chris could have been prevented. I was in shock and I was hurt.”

Patrong and his mother, Rose Patrong, launched a lawsuit this week, alleging police had opportunities to detain Riley for breaching probation conditions and “failed to prevent the shooting.”

The suit also alleges police “put innocent members of the public, including Kofi, at risk so that they could pursue their investigation of Riley.”

Patrong is seeking $8.5 million in damages and his mother, a bank worker, is seeking $525,000.

The suit names Al Comeau, a now retired homicide detective, homicide investigator Det.-Sgt. Wayne Banks, then chief of police Julian Fantino and the Toronto Police Services Board as defendants. A statement of defence has not been filed and the allegations have not been proven in court.

A police spokesperson said the service has no comment at this time.

Comeau and Banks are both experienced and well-respected investigators. At the time of the shooting, they were probing the earlier 2004 death of Brenton Charlton and attempted murder of Leonard Bell, innocent victims of a drive-by shooting motivated by the mistaken belief they belonged to a rival gang. Riley and two others were later convicted in that case.

Neither could be reached for comment.

In a 2008 pre-trial hearing, Comeau testified that officers feared Riley might shoot more people but felt that leaving him on the street was the best way to collect evidence.

He also acknowledged that “despite our best efforts” Riley shot the two teenagers. “Had I known . . . I might have done things differently.”

The allegations in this case are reminiscent of Jane Doe, a rape victim who sued Toronto police after they failed to adequately warn woman about an attacker in the ’80s known as the Balcony Rapist.

“I believe that Kofi’s case is much stronger than Jane Doe’s case,” said lawyer Barry Swadron, who along with Kelley Bryan is representing the Patrongs.

“In this case, the police knew who Riley was and could have contained him. They took a calculated risk and Kofi’s life was shattered.”

Much of the lawsuit is based on what became publicly known from Riley’s unsuccessful bid to have wiretap evidence tossed out this spring in the attempted murder case that left Patrong and Hyatt, now in the witness protection program, wounded.

Justice Ian Nordheimer detailed the investigation in his June 15 ruling and concluded: “The police undoubtedly made mistakes, many of which cannot be easily excused. It was not their finest hour in terms of the conduct of an investigation.”

Police, according to a summary in the judge’s ruling, believed Riley of the Galloway Boys gang had participated in the shooting of Charlton and Bell and would likely try to shoot others he believed were members of the Malvern Crew. The two Scarborough gangs were at war, and innocent people were getting hit.

On March 17, Comeau made a request to Mobile Support Services for surveillance on Riley’s vehicle and provided background and a warning “in bolded capital letters” that should the vehicle enter the Malvern area, the occupants would likely be armed and dangerous. If that were to happen, surveillance officers were advised to initiate a high-risk takedown.

The surveillance, however, was spotty. The unit had to prioritize cases, and there were gaps.

On March 24, a friend of Riley’s gave Comeau and Banks information about shootings that involved Riley and vehicles that were used. The friend also told police she had seen Riley armed with a firearm on more than one occasion.

Riley was on a two-year conditional sentence at the time, and had to report to a probation officer and abide by rules, including a curfew and travel restrictions that forbade him from being anywhere east of Victoria Park Ave. except when with his father and for employment purposes.

On April 12, there was another shooting, and it was believed Riley was involved. Comeau received court permission that day to use mobile phone tracking on Riley.

Riley appeared in Oshawa court April 14 on another matter, and was being watched by police. He arrived and left without his father, a clear breach of his conditions. Yet, there was no arrest.

Also on that day, there was a meeting of senior officers who oversee all important investigations. Comeau, who was out of the country, was represented by Banks at the meeting, which dealt specifically with Riley.

“It was universally recognized within this group that Mr. Riley was a dangerous man who posed a serious risk to public safety,” Nordheimer noted in his ruling. The group expanded the directive that called for an arrest if Riley ventured into the Malvern neighbourhood to include all of Scarborough.

So concerned were police that the unit commander for the Intelligence Section came up with the idea of an emergency wiretap intercept to keep tabs on Riley, who was proving hard to track because of his use of multiple vehicles. From April 15 to 19, police listened in on Riley’s phone calls, without judicial authorization.

It wasn’t until the 19th that they located one of his vehicles, an Audi A6, behind his girlfriend’s apartment — in Scarborough.

A man matching Riley’s description drove away in the Audi and the team followed it, again through Scarborough. It increased its speed and sped away from the surveillance team. The car was headed for Malvern when the team lost the “eye” on the Audi.

Minutes later, Riley shot and wounded Patrong and his friend Hyatt. The wire room later intercepted a Riley call and, for the first time, relayed location information from the intercepts to the surveillance team.

The surveillance team picked up the Audi and followed it to Oshawa, where they were directed to stop the vehicle. They boxed it in, leading to the arrest of Riley and two others.

In his ruling, which allowed the wiretap evidence, Nordheimer concluded:

“The (police) errors resulted from a combination of factors including a lack of experience in some instances, miscommunications in other instances and a failure to make reasonable inquiries in yet other instances.

“However, none of these errors resulted from any institutional disregard for the rights of Mr. Riley nor from any individual disrespect for those rights.”

With the wiretap evidence in, Riley pleaded guilty in June to attempting to murder Patrong and Hyatt and is serving an 18-year prison term.

Riley, who is suspected in other killings, was already serving a life sentence for the drive-by killing of Charlton and the attempted murder of Bell.

Patrong said he has not ventured into the backyard of his townhouse since the day he was shot. One of Patrong’s bullet wounds became infected in hospital. There were painful skin grafts and it was half a year before he was mobile. He still walks with a limp.

He studied to be a natural gas technician but the work is too physically demanding.

He lives on Ontario Disability Support Program payments and has a family now.

“It’s been rough, financially and emotionally,” Patrong said. “I’ve got two kids.”

Of the police, he said:

“I don’t have any hard feelings against them. They’re there to serve and protect, so I don’t want to bash them.

“But if they see a problem, they need to diffuse it quick. Look what happened to me.”
 

SteveGangi

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I don't know about Canada but here in the U.S. police have no duty to protect you. Couple that with the general desire to disarm us all and prevent us from defending ourselves, and you see why many people are going "WTF" here.

7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES

On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order.

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)
 

Blues4U

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I don't know about Canada but here in the U.S. police have no duty to protect you. Couple that with the general desire to disarm us all and prevent us from defending ourselves, and you see why many people are going "WTF" here.

7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES

On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order.

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)

The first asshole with the idea to put "To protects, and to serve" on the side of cruisers screwed it up for everybody-

Regardless what anybody things--as a whole, LEO's are a reactionary force--they come to clean up the mess, write a report, scrape up the carcass and once in a great while, they are lucky enough to see and engage the bad guys--
 

cwness

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"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)

Pretty good argument for conceal and carry. If the cops have no duty to protect people that are threaten with death they'll have to protect them selves. Yet the states screw us even more in MN. The only way you can
protect yourself is if you have no avenue of escape. Why is the government
and do gooders so worried about a bunch of criminals getting shot while committing a crime. I'm not. I say let them blast away at the bad guys. It
might become a deterrent and make them think is it worth the chance of getting shot.

CW

The figure is an average someone came up with for just the purpose of sueing someone.
 

Gear.Pig

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I don't know about Canada but here in the U.S. police have no duty to protect you. Couple that with the general desire to disarm us all and prevent us from defending ourselves, and you see why many people are going "WTF" here.

7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES

On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order.

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)
Right. Do you really think that the police have the manpower to personally act as bodyguards to every citizen who might be threatened? There are 600,000 local, county, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the country. There are 300,000,000 citizens - do the math. Police will do what they can, but they don't typically guard people.

And FYI, the great majority of police are gun advocates. Blame politicians, not police.
 

Blues4U

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Right. Do you really think that the police have the manpower to personally act as bodyguards to every citizen who might be threatened? There are 600,000 local, county, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the country. There are 300,000,000 citizens - do the math. Police will do what they can, but they don't typically guard people.

And FYI, the great majority of police are gun advocates. Blame politicians, not police.

Well, they do guard famous people, rich people and political figures, but this is for another thread--lol
 

SteveGangi

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Pretty good argument for conceal and carry. If the cops have no duty to protect people that are threaten with death they'll have to protect them selves. Yet the states screw us even more in MN. The only way you can
protect yourself is if you have no avenue of escape. Why is the government
and do gooders so worried about a bunch of criminals getting shot while committing a crime. I'm not. I say let them blast away at the bad guys. It
might become a deterrent and make them think is it worth the chance of getting shot.

CW

The figure is an average someone came up with for just the purpose of sueing someone.
Even with an avenue of escape, I personally do not recognize any "duty to escape" unless it is safer for ME to do so. To hell with the perp.
 

Blues4U

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Here in Indiana--our laws were amended to allow us to STAND OUR GROUND--we no longer have the onus to try our best to avoid a confrontation--I also have the right to use deadly force if the offender is trying to harm YOU--I can use deadly force to save another person--This is the way it should be--
 

Gear.Pig

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Well, they do guard famous people, rich people and political figures, but this is for another thread--lol
Rich and famous? Not on the clock. Some cops are hired off-duty for that stuff, and others might attach in a liaison capacity to such security details that are in their jurisdiction in order to facilitate locally, but they won't provide the celebrity with security by actually acting as their security detail.

Politicians are another story, they are elected representatives and yes they get protection. but only a few get it cart-blanche, most do not unless there's a specific threat concern. I know what I'm talking about in this arena.

As for that duty to flee bullshit, I don't agree with that. And I think every state should have a castle doctrine.

IMO our liberalized politically correct criminal-coddling society is the problem here, not the police.
 

Blues4U

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Rich and famous? Not on the clock. Some cops are hired off-duty for that stuff, and others might attach in a liaison capacity to such security details that are in their jurisdiction in order to facilitate locally, but they won't provide the celebrity with security by actually acting as their security detail.

Politicians are another story, they are elected representatives and yes they get protection. but only a few get it cart-blanche, most do not unless there's a specific threat concern. I know what I'm talking about in this arena.

As for that duty to flee bullshit, I don't agree with that. And I think every state should have a castle doctrine.

IMO our overly politically correct society and the liberalization of our criminal-coddling society is the problem here, not the police.

SO, you have never seen entire convoys and motorcades of police escorting normal citizens in uniform, with police cruisers--??? hmmm--
 

SteveGangi

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Right. Do you really think that the police have the manpower to personally act as bodyguards to every citizen who might be threatened? There are 600,000 local, county, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the country. There are 300,000,000 citizens - do the math. Police will do what they can, but they don't typically guard people.

And FYI, the great majority of police are gun advocates. Blame politicians, not police.
I don't buy it.

Police are definitely NOT gun advocates in Los Angeles and New York - and I have lived in both places. Fort Worth on the other hand, was more pro-gun and anti-perp. Further, if someone is threatened and there is reason to believe the perp will follow through, then what are the police for? To just file a report and walk away? We don't need them then.

But, I quoted the rulings that say clearly that the police are not there to protect. Fine. Let us handle it ourselves and stay out of it. Just mop up the floor after the fact and leave.
 

Gear.Pig

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You know what's funny is of all the forums I participate in, I love the off topic areas except MLP. For some reason, there seems to be a lot more cop trolling on MLP than other guitar forums in general, so I tend to avoid the backstage area, which is too bad really because there's a lot of cool and funny shit to talk about in here. But I get frustrated at the uninformed and biased cop bashing that seems en-vogue around here.
 

cwness

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Even with an avenue of escape, I personally do not recognize any "duty to escape" unless it is safer for ME to do so. To hell with the perp.

Hear ya Steve

If your coming in my house by kicking in the door I'm not taking any chances
about what your intent is I'm shooting and not taking prisoners. There was another robbery in the area and I was told the sheriffs would be patrolling the area more. Haven't seen one yet. I know they can't protect everyone but the Government has to let me protect myself or maybe I'm in the wrong business. If I know people can't do anything to me crime might be another
career move.:laugh2: If I could escape without danger to me I would also do so but turning my back to the perp doesn't sound all that safe to me. They'd have the big yellow stripe as a target.:laugh2:

CW
 

Gear.Pig

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Police are definitely NOT gun advocates in Los Angeles.
You're speaking to one, and you're wrong.

But, I quoted the rulings that say clearly that the police are not there to protect. Fine. Let us handle it ourselves and stay out of it. Just mop up the floor after the fact and leave.
This is also wrong, a strange thing. But again, this is the courts, not the poilce - recognize the difference.
 

Blues4U

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I don't buy it.

Police are definitely NOT gun advocates in Los Angeles and New York - and I have lived in both places. Fort Worth on the other hand, was more pro-gun and anti-perp. Further, if someone is threatened and there is reason to believe the perp will follow through, then what are the police for? To just file a report and walk away? We don't need them then.

But, I quoted the rulings that say clearly that the police are not there to protect. Fine. Let us handle it ourselves and stay out of it. Just mop up the floor after the fact and leave.

Steve--

Just wanted to let you know--I have no less than a dozen personal friends that are in various forms of law enforcement--

City cops, county cops, conservation officers, state police, FBI and DEA -- to a man (and woman) they all are strong supporters of the citizens right--and as they see it, their responsibility to protect themselves and their neighbors--

You are confusing "Political appointees" such as Chief's of police organizations, and such--they always come down on the side of gun control--

My friend and neighbor is our chief of police---he is a strong supporter of the second amendment--I have frequently rode along in patrol cars, with several officers heading to the local NRA banquet---

Most cops think we should all take care of ourselves--especially, if we expect them to put their lives on the line for us--
 

Gear.Pig

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SO, you have never seen entire convoys and motorcades of police escorting normal citizens in uniform, with police cruisers--??? hmmm--
When this happens, its not done as a perk to the celebrity. Its done to minimize the impact to the public such as traffic and crowd issues that can sometimes accompany the presence of such people.
 

Gear.Pig

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Steve--

Just wanted to let you know--I have no less than a dozen personal friends that are in various forms of law enforcement--

City cops, county cops, conservation officers, state police, FBI and DEA -- to a man (and woman) they all are strong supporters of the citizens right--and as they see it, their responsibility to protect themselves and their neighbors--

You are confusing "Political appointees" such as Chief's of police organizations, and such--they always come down on the side of gun control--

My friend and neighbor is our chief of police---he is a strong supporter of the second amendment--I have frequently rode along in patrol cars, with several officers heading to the local NRA banquet---

Most cops think we should all take care of ourselves--especially, if we expect them to put their lives on the line for us--
Excellent post.
 

SteveGangi

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You know what's funny is of all the forums I participate in, I love the off topic areas except MLP. For some reason, there seems to be a lot more cop trolling on MLP than other guitar forums in general, so I tend to avoid the backstage area, which is too bad really because there's a lot of cool and funny shit to talk about in here. But I get frustrated at the uninformed and biased cop bashing that seems en-vogue around here.

It is not biased and uninformed. I have lived in several places. I quoted COURT RULINGS.

The LAW puts all the risk and all the onus on the potential victim and takes it OFF the law.

Many places make it damn near impossible to arm yourself, and saddle you with a "duty to escape", do not recognize any sort of "castle doctrine", and even have a "sliding scale of appropriate response". No one has the duty to stop the criminal or protect you, after you have been hobbled.

ENOUGH.
 

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Steve--

Just wanted to let you know--I have no less than a dozen personal friends that are in various forms of law enforcement--

City cops, county cops, conservation officers, state police, FBI and DEA -- to a man (and woman) they all are strong supporters of the citizens right--and as they see it, their responsibility to protect themselves and their neighbors--

You are confusing "Political appointees" such as Chief's of police organizations, and such--they always come down on the side of gun control--

My friend and neighbor is our chief of police---he is a strong supporter of the second amendment--I have frequently rode along in patrol cars, with several officers heading to the local NRA banquet---

Most cops think we should all take care of ourselves--especially, if we expect them to put their lives on the line for us--

Not in LA and not in NY. And not in ummm a few other places.
 

Blues4U

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You know what's funny is of all the forums I participate in, I love the off topic areas except MLP. For some reason, there seems to be a lot more cop trolling on MLP than other guitar forums in general, so I tend to avoid the backstage area, which is too bad really because there's a lot of cool and funny shit to talk about in here. But I get frustrated at the uninformed and biased cop bashing that seems en-vogue around here.



There are plenty of cop haters on this site--I would suspect, much of this comes from past negative interactions with the fuzz:laugh2:

I am just a crocked or incompetent cop hater---and very intolerant of the enablers of bad cops---other than this--I am very pro LEO--:D

As for the castle doctrine--we not only have this--but like I said--I can be in a 100 acre field, feel threatened, choose to stand my ground--and if you are foolish enough to come into my personal space, to do harm--it could get ugly--This is the way it should be--
 

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