TonePros AVR-II Bridge Confusion on the Original Collection Standards

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
My understanding is that the Original Collection '50s and '60s Standards come with either TonePros AVR-II bridges or Gibson ABR-1 bridges. Mine came with the TonePros one.

Naturally, (because I'm a nut and I wanna know everything about everything that's on my guitar and I like to geek out on stuff when it's slow at work) I Google "TonePros AVR-II bridges", and all I find is the locking model version and it has a retainer wire. Mine is not locking and has no retainer wire. I figured there are 2 versions, right? Locking and non locking, but I can't find anything that's like what came on my guitar. Absolutely no information about this non locking version with no retainer wire that came with mine. Anybody know anything about my AVR-II? Can you guys weigh in with your knowledge?
 

CB91710

Not Michael Sankar
Double Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
14,765
Reaction score
41,716
I contacted them and asked.
We need the Nashville replacement... NVR2 or NVR2P (notched)
That one has no retainer. Personally, I like locking... stays put when removing strings to clean the neck or remove pickups.
"Locking" is not like Floyd Rose locking... it's just a grub screw in the side of the part. After adjusting bridge height, tighten it down and it stays put.
Likewise, the locking tailstop doesn't fall off of the posts and mar the finish.



The retainer wire was a fix for a design problem on the original ABR where the saddles would fall out... so "vintage correct" for a 50s series could be either with or without the wire.
Vintage correct for 60s would be with the wire.
The problem has returned on the Original Series.... I picked up a nasty sitar after setting my intonation... yep, the saddle had lifted, buzz went away when I seated it.
I bought the NVR2P and will install it next string change.

These are the Tonepros locking parts on my Flying V
Bridge body bushings were a press-in replacement for the original Gibson parts.
The tailstop bushings were smaller, but the studs threaded into the Gibson parts.

TP-Hardware.jpg
 

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
I contacted them and asked.
We need the Nashville replacement... NVR2 or NVR2P (notched)
That one has no retainer. Personally, I like locking... stays put when removing strings to clean the neck or remove pickups.
"Locking" is not like Floyd Rose locking... it's just a grub screw in the side of the part. After adjusting bridge height, tighten it down and it stays put.
Likewise, the locking tailstop doesn't fall off of the posts and mar the finish.



The retainer wire was a fix for a design problem on the original ABR where the saddles would fall out... so "vintage correct" for a 50s series could be either with or without the wire.
Vintage correct for 60s would be with the wire.
The problem has returned on the Original Series.... I picked up a nasty sitar after setting my intonation... yep, the saddle had lifted, buzz went away when I seated it.
I bought the NVR2P and will install it next string change.

These are the Tonepros locking parts on my Flying V
Bridge body bushings were a press-in replacement for the original Gibson parts.
The tailstop bushings were smaller, but the studs threaded into the Gibson parts.

View attachment 456975
Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?
 

PauloQS

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,159
At the bottom of the bridge it says Gibson ABR-1. Where are you getting this info that they are tone pros?
 

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
At the bottom of the bridge it says Gibson ABR-1. Where are you getting this info that they are tone pros?
As I stated in the initial post, Original Collection Standards came with either TonePros or Gibson bridges, mine is a TonePros. Mine says TonePros AVR-II on the underside.
 

dCi_king

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2015
Messages
693
Reaction score
845
My Standard 2019 came with Tonepros. I contacted to my seller, and they contacted to Gibson. Gibson said that is totally normal... WTF!
 

PauloQS

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,159
As I stated in the initial post, Original Collection Standards came with either TonePros or Gibson bridges, mine is a TonePros. Mine says TonePros AVR-II on the underside.

Yes, you did state that on your original post. Sorry, my bad.
 

CB91710

Not Michael Sankar
Double Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
14,765
Reaction score
41,716
Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?
Given the production needs, it would not surprise me if there were a separate product provided to Gibson not in the normal catalog.
IIRC, they did offer non-locking last year, but I don't see anything non-locking in the lineup now.
As to the differences between the AVR and NVR lines... I honestly don't know. TP was very clear that I needed the NVR for my Original.
I do own an AVR... I should check it and see if it'll fit the NVR studs.

So can you remove your saddles after removing the strings, or are the screws captive?
 

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
Given the production needs, it would not surprise me if there were a separate product provided to Gibson not in the normal catalog.
IIRC, they did offer non-locking last year, but I don't see anything non-locking in the lineup now.
As to the differences between the AVR and NVR lines... I honestly don't know. TP was very clear that I needed the NVR for my Original.
I do own an AVR... I should check it and see if it'll fit the NVR studs.

So can you remove your saddles after removing the strings, or are the screws captive?
Thanks for you input brother! I can't believe you called TonePros, you're a nut like me, I'm gonna call them one day for clarification, lol! I ordered some conversion posts from Philadelphia Luthier for the vintage look, with thin brass thumbwheels that I already have, and I also ordered Faber locking studs for an aluminum tailpiece I already have. So my posts are coming on Monday for sure, and the Faber studs will probably come a day or 2 after, the tracking hasn't updated with the delivery date, it was accepted by USPS, so that will update and gimme a delivery date by tomorrow. When they come, I will experiment and see if my current bridge fits, etc.. I will see if I am able to remove the saddles when I receive all the parts as well and see if the screws are captive, I don't wanna fuck with anything until I install all the parts. I will update you next week!
 

rikko

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
3,660
Reaction score
3,994
Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?

ABR 1 has smaller posts & is smaller than a Nashville overall.
Here's my stock Nashville next to my Faber ABR1 tonelock:
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20200423_175847561.jpg
    IMG_20200423_175847561.jpg
    42 KB · Views: 168

CB91710

Not Michael Sankar
Double Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
14,765
Reaction score
41,716
Thanks for you input brother! I can't believe you called TonePros, you're a nut like me, I'm gonna call them one day for clarification, lol! I ordered some conversion posts from Philadelphia Luthier for the vintage look, with thin brass thumbwheels that I already have, and I also ordered Faber locking studs for an aluminum tailpiece I already have. So my posts are coming on Monday for sure, and the Faber studs will probably come a day or 2 after, the tracking hasn't updated with the delivery date, it was accepted by USPS, so that will update and gimme a delivery date by tomorrow. When they come, I will experiment and see if my current bridge fits, etc.. I will see if I am able to remove the saddles when I receive all the parts as well and see if the screws are captive, I don't wanna fuck with anything until I install all the parts. I will update you next week!
Email... But I contacted them because I wanted to be sure I was buying the correct part... not to find out what I had :D
I honestly don't know... I haven't pulled my Original's bridge yet.

But apparently, it doesn't matter which one.... Both posts fit nicely.

BothBridge.jpg

AVR2-PKG.jpg

NVR2-PKG.jpg

BothPosts-1.jpg

BothPosts-2.jpg
 

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
Email... But I contacted them because I wanted to be sure I was buying the correct part... not to find out what I had :D
I honestly don't know... I haven't pulled my Original's bridge yet.

But apparently, it doesn't matter which one.... Both posts fit nicely.

View attachment 457181
View attachment 457178
View attachment 457177
View attachment 457179
View attachment 457180
Thanks for the pics, odd indeed. Odd. Which one are you going to end up using? And if you use the AVR old style one, are you going to notch them yourself?
 

CB91710

Not Michael Sankar
Double Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
14,765
Reaction score
41,716
Thanks for the pics, odd indeed. Odd. Which one are you going to end up using? And if you use the AVR old style one, are you going to notch them yourself?
Still not sure. I do like the look of the wire.
I have a set of nut files, so notching is no big deal.
Even the notched saddles are only "starter" notches... but I didn't deepen them on the Flying-V and it seems to be fine. I've not knocked one out of place and I beat the snot out of it.

Funny that the V and LP are my two nicest guitars, but I pound on them harder than I've ever pounded on a Strat.
 

Ripgut

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
411
Reaction score
585
Gibbies can sure take a lickin'! I seen your post about your V, you built it from a husk, the mods are awesome! And your Iced Tea is a monster top man! It was a hard decision for me between Unburst and Iced Tea.

Anyhows, I'll update you when I get my parts and setup my guitar. I love/hate doing it because I have to redo all the adjustments, truss rod/neck relief, string height, pickup height, intonation, etc.. And I won't stop until I get every single little thing correct, at least according to my ears.
 

CB91710

Not Michael Sankar
Double Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
14,765
Reaction score
41,716
Ahh... I didn't realize the wired bridges still had the saddle clips.
I guess they would have to in order to prevent the saddle from walking forward.
 

sonar1

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
22,637
Reaction score
83,999
I had locking TonePros on a Standard, a couple years ago.

IIRC the heavier/larger Gibson Nashville tune-o-matic was an Rx to collapsed ABR’s that flattened out under string tension when guys were decking their tailpieces.
 

jbash

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
1,785
Reaction score
2,585
Memphis had been using those AVR bridges on various guitars the past few years before the buyout. They are probably just blowing through inventory in the consolidation of the two factories.
 

ducmike

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
7
Reaction score
19
My 2017 Traditional, I bought it new, came with the ABR1 with the wire. It started to sitar shortly after I got it, so I ordered the Tone Pros AVRII non-locking, no wire. It dropped right on the original studs perfectly and has been great for 3 years now. Just a great guitar, and I can imagine the new Standards are even nicer.
 

Groetthe

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Well, I‘m glad that has question has finally raised as I was getting nuts too. I found (quite) the same issue…
I’ve purchased my Gib LP standard 60’s from a seller as new - it came smelling vanilla by far, peel off film still in pickguard, all case candies included but missing the “birth photo certificate.
I too am a bit over as I must know everything about my guitar, right? My wife would, of course not agree, but the point is… My tuneomatic bridge came written underneath TonePros AVR II, I thought I’ve been scammed (remember, no factory photo came in the case) so I sent Gib son an e-mail explaining that and asking if they should come with Gibson ABR-1 or if that Tonepros AVR-II could be “right“ or acceptable to have come from stock that way. Their answer was that probably the previous owner changed that for a Tonepros bridge, Gib sons would only come with “Gibson ABR-1” bridges. I said, alright, so I need to find what was the ”original“ Gib Son tune’omatic ABR-1 bridge model I should look for. I thought that the ‘non wired’ modern PBBR-059 would be “the one” I was looking for (after spending money on a wired PBBR-015 I found the holes on it were too thin, not fitting the posts/studs the guitar actually came with like Nashville style). So after spending again on that non wired, guess what?! It didn’t fit again, of course not, my luck right?!
So after all of that I found this post thread, but it actually caused me more confusion, as you stated yours came from factory with Tonepros, mine too but I am not too confident mine really came with that Tonepros because, 1st) - I didn’t purchased from an authorized seller and, 2nd) - After sending Gib Son an email they told me I had the wrong (Tonepros) bridge as they should come with Gib Son ABR-1 bridge instead.
Should I still look for another bridge or even another posts/ studs?
Please, let me know what you guys think, I’d really appreciate your inputs on that.
Cheers!
 


Top