TonePros AVR-II Bridge Confusion on the Original Collection Standards

Ripgut

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My understanding is that the Original Collection '50s and '60s Standards come with either TonePros AVR-II bridges or Gibson ABR-1 bridges. Mine came with the TonePros one.

Naturally, (because I'm a nut and I wanna know everything about everything that's on my guitar and I like to geek out on stuff when it's slow at work) I Google "TonePros AVR-II bridges", and all I find is the locking model version and it has a retainer wire. Mine is not locking and has no retainer wire. I figured there are 2 versions, right? Locking and non locking, but I can't find anything that's like what came on my guitar. Absolutely no information about this non locking version with no retainer wire that came with mine. Anybody know anything about my AVR-II? Can you guys weigh in with your knowledge?
 

CB91710

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I contacted them and asked.
We need the Nashville replacement... NVR2 or NVR2P (notched)
That one has no retainer. Personally, I like locking... stays put when removing strings to clean the neck or remove pickups.
"Locking" is not like Floyd Rose locking... it's just a grub screw in the side of the part. After adjusting bridge height, tighten it down and it stays put.
Likewise, the locking tailstop doesn't fall off of the posts and mar the finish.



The retainer wire was a fix for a design problem on the original ABR where the saddles would fall out... so "vintage correct" for a 50s series could be either with or without the wire.
Vintage correct for 60s would be with the wire.
The problem has returned on the Original Series.... I picked up a nasty sitar after setting my intonation... yep, the saddle had lifted, buzz went away when I seated it.
I bought the NVR2P and will install it next string change.

These are the Tonepros locking parts on my Flying V
Bridge body bushings were a press-in replacement for the original Gibson parts.
The tailstop bushings were smaller, but the studs threaded into the Gibson parts.

TP-Hardware.jpg
 

Ripgut

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I contacted them and asked.
We need the Nashville replacement... NVR2 or NVR2P (notched)
That one has no retainer. Personally, I like locking... stays put when removing strings to clean the neck or remove pickups.
"Locking" is not like Floyd Rose locking... it's just a grub screw in the side of the part. After adjusting bridge height, tighten it down and it stays put.
Likewise, the locking tailstop doesn't fall off of the posts and mar the finish.



The retainer wire was a fix for a design problem on the original ABR where the saddles would fall out... so "vintage correct" for a 50s series could be either with or without the wire.
Vintage correct for 60s would be with the wire.
The problem has returned on the Original Series.... I picked up a nasty sitar after setting my intonation... yep, the saddle had lifted, buzz went away when I seated it.
I bought the NVR2P and will install it next string change.

These are the Tonepros locking parts on my Flying V
Bridge body bushings were a press-in replacement for the original Gibson parts.
The tailstop bushings were smaller, but the studs threaded into the Gibson parts.

View attachment 456975
Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?
 

PauloQS

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At the bottom of the bridge it says Gibson ABR-1. Where are you getting this info that they are tone pros?
 

Ripgut

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At the bottom of the bridge it says Gibson ABR-1. Where are you getting this info that they are tone pros?
As I stated in the initial post, Original Collection Standards came with either TonePros or Gibson bridges, mine is a TonePros. Mine says TonePros AVR-II on the underside.
 

dCi_king

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My Standard 2019 came with Tonepros. I contacted to my seller, and they contacted to Gibson. Gibson said that is totally normal... WTF!
 

PauloQS

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As I stated in the initial post, Original Collection Standards came with either TonePros or Gibson bridges, mine is a TonePros. Mine says TonePros AVR-II on the underside.

Yes, you did state that on your original post. Sorry, my bad.
 

CB91710

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Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?
Given the production needs, it would not surprise me if there were a separate product provided to Gibson not in the normal catalog.
IIRC, they did offer non-locking last year, but I don't see anything non-locking in the lineup now.
As to the differences between the AVR and NVR lines... I honestly don't know. TP was very clear that I needed the NVR for my Original.
I do own an AVR... I should check it and see if it'll fit the NVR studs.

So can you remove your saddles after removing the strings, or are the screws captive?
 

Ripgut

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Given the production needs, it would not surprise me if there were a separate product provided to Gibson not in the normal catalog.
IIRC, they did offer non-locking last year, but I don't see anything non-locking in the lineup now.
As to the differences between the AVR and NVR lines... I honestly don't know. TP was very clear that I needed the NVR for my Original.
I do own an AVR... I should check it and see if it'll fit the NVR studs.

So can you remove your saddles after removing the strings, or are the screws captive?
Thanks for you input brother! I can't believe you called TonePros, you're a nut like me, I'm gonna call them one day for clarification, lol! I ordered some conversion posts from Philadelphia Luthier for the vintage look, with thin brass thumbwheels that I already have, and I also ordered Faber locking studs for an aluminum tailpiece I already have. So my posts are coming on Monday for sure, and the Faber studs will probably come a day or 2 after, the tracking hasn't updated with the delivery date, it was accepted by USPS, so that will update and gimme a delivery date by tomorrow. When they come, I will experiment and see if my current bridge fits, etc.. I will see if I am able to remove the saddles when I receive all the parts as well and see if the screws are captive, I don't wanna fuck with anything until I install all the parts. I will update you next week!
 

rikko

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Thanks for your help. I get the difference between Nashville and ABR, it's basically the posts, right? Our posts are modified to go into Nashville studs and are thin enough on the top to fit ABRs, if I'm not mistaken.

So our AVR-II is a one of a kind non locking ABR-1 style bridge TonePros created for Gibson?

This is where I'm confused, because every single bridge on their website regardless of Nashville or ABR style are locking style and ours aren't.

More confusion now... LOL
Shouldn't the posts that we have now be able to fit the AVR-II on the TonePros site, or any ABR-1 style aftermarket bridge for that matter? Why wouldn't their AVR-II locking version work with our guitars?

ABR 1 has smaller posts & is smaller than a Nashville overall.
Here's my stock Nashville next to my Faber ABR1 tonelock:
 

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CB91710

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Thanks for you input brother! I can't believe you called TonePros, you're a nut like me, I'm gonna call them one day for clarification, lol! I ordered some conversion posts from Philadelphia Luthier for the vintage look, with thin brass thumbwheels that I already have, and I also ordered Faber locking studs for an aluminum tailpiece I already have. So my posts are coming on Monday for sure, and the Faber studs will probably come a day or 2 after, the tracking hasn't updated with the delivery date, it was accepted by USPS, so that will update and gimme a delivery date by tomorrow. When they come, I will experiment and see if my current bridge fits, etc.. I will see if I am able to remove the saddles when I receive all the parts as well and see if the screws are captive, I don't wanna fuck with anything until I install all the parts. I will update you next week!
Email... But I contacted them because I wanted to be sure I was buying the correct part... not to find out what I had :D
I honestly don't know... I haven't pulled my Original's bridge yet.

But apparently, it doesn't matter which one.... Both posts fit nicely.

BothBridge.jpg

AVR2-PKG.jpg

NVR2-PKG.jpg

BothPosts-1.jpg

BothPosts-2.jpg
 

Ripgut

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Email... But I contacted them because I wanted to be sure I was buying the correct part... not to find out what I had :D
I honestly don't know... I haven't pulled my Original's bridge yet.

But apparently, it doesn't matter which one.... Both posts fit nicely.

View attachment 457181
View attachment 457178
View attachment 457177
View attachment 457179
View attachment 457180
Thanks for the pics, odd indeed. Odd. Which one are you going to end up using? And if you use the AVR old style one, are you going to notch them yourself?
 

CB91710

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Thanks for the pics, odd indeed. Odd. Which one are you going to end up using? And if you use the AVR old style one, are you going to notch them yourself?
Still not sure. I do like the look of the wire.
I have a set of nut files, so notching is no big deal.
Even the notched saddles are only "starter" notches... but I didn't deepen them on the Flying-V and it seems to be fine. I've not knocked one out of place and I beat the snot out of it.

Funny that the V and LP are my two nicest guitars, but I pound on them harder than I've ever pounded on a Strat.
 

Ripgut

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Gibbies can sure take a lickin'! I seen your post about your V, you built it from a husk, the mods are awesome! And your Iced Tea is a monster top man! It was a hard decision for me between Unburst and Iced Tea.

Anyhows, I'll update you when I get my parts and setup my guitar. I love/hate doing it because I have to redo all the adjustments, truss rod/neck relief, string height, pickup height, intonation, etc.. And I won't stop until I get every single little thing correct, at least according to my ears.
 

CB91710

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Ahh... I didn't realize the wired bridges still had the saddle clips.
I guess they would have to in order to prevent the saddle from walking forward.
 

sonar1

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I had locking TonePros on a Standard, a couple years ago.

IIRC the heavier/larger Gibson Nashville tune-o-matic was an Rx to collapsed ABR’s that flattened out under string tension when guys were decking their tailpieces.
 

jbash

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Memphis had been using those AVR bridges on various guitars the past few years before the buyout. They are probably just blowing through inventory in the consolidation of the two factories.
 

ducmike

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My 2017 Traditional, I bought it new, came with the ABR1 with the wire. It started to sitar shortly after I got it, so I ordered the Tone Pros AVRII non-locking, no wire. It dropped right on the original studs perfectly and has been great for 3 years now. Just a great guitar, and I can imagine the new Standards are even nicer.
 

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