Tokai LS200 - worth going for or overrated?

[Epoxy]

Hi,

I have been following this forum from afar for a while and have found the help and advice from the members extremely useful. Essentially, I have been trying to establish which MIJ LP to go for and have come accross a Tokai LS200 which seems to be in pretty good condition from 2003.

However, before I comit to buy it, I wondered if anyone on the forum could offer me advice on what a reasonable price for this is and perhaps suggest a suitable alternative (Bacchus, Greco, etc) if I decide to hold off for a while?

Any help or advice would be very gratefully received.

 

[bassbo530]

Hello !! I own 4 Tokais... 5 counting my Flying V.... 2 mid 80's models and two recent Models ... A LS110 & LS150 I Love them ALL My LS150 Totally smokes ... sound & playability !! So I think a LS200 would kick axe !~! I think around $1500 or so on the high side would be OK .. Lets see what others say !! Cant tell you about a Bacchus ... But that is on my List !! GOOD LUCK !!

 

[reborn old]

I think the value would depend a lot on condition and the solid flame top grade, which varied between 2a and 4a grades.
It would be comparable to an LS-230 from 2009 to date (which retails for about $3000 new in Japan)
My LS-230 is certainly the most playable LP I've ever owned, amongst a number of earlier Tokais and Fujigen LP's.
The electronics are great. The neck on mine is in between a 1958-1959 profile.
The mkII pups are not bad but not great. Seymour Duncan, Maxon, or boutique brand pups are all this LP would ever need.
All LS-200's are long tenon, 1 piece backs, nitro over thin poly finish.
Other than the practice of CNC milling and then filling inlay corners (which is barely noticeable on darker fingerboards) overall build quality is very good to excellent. A Bacchus, Greco or Burny solid flametop would be comparable in quality (plus cleaner inlay routs)
and some are better sounding, but usually a lot more $$$ because of comparative rarity.

 

[nwobhm]

I saw a LS320 go for 2150.00us the other day on Ebay. If I had the coin, I might have jumped on it but, got too much as it is!

 

[pfddi]

I have numerous Tokais and Grecos and found that the quality on all of them is at minimum on par with the Gibson custom shop offerings. I have an LS-250 I paid $1,800 for and changed out the pickups with some JM Rolphs and now have the equivalent of an LS-420. I have some of the early Tokais and Grecos - late 70s to mid 80s - and they are wonderful. You won't be disappointed with any of them.

 

[Kemper59]

You definitely can't go wrong with the LS200, but my favourites are the current LS160 or LS150 AAA....no need to go beyond those models.

 

[KennyD]

VintageJIM is probably a good sounding board as I beleive he owns several Bacchus and an LS200.

 

[BrazenPicker]

For a second I misread that. "Good-sounding broad".

 

[al3d]

i'll be the devil's advocate here...if you got 1500$ to spend..why not a real LP?..you can find a used Standard for that easily no?

 

[BrazenPicker]

Consistency. I recently bought a near-mint 2008 Navigator LP custom. For the money I spent I was easily in used Gibson custom shop territory, but I felt much safer buying the Navigator. I'm not complaining: great resonance and tone, plays like butter, lightweight Honduran mahogany (3.7kg unchambered), ebony fretboard as smooth as marble, electronics that don't need changing (although I may just play around with the stock Seth Lovers for fun...), inlay work where you'd need a microscope to see a flaw... Trust me, when I'm playing it the thought has never occurred to me that "gee, I could have had a Gibson instead".

Even purely at the brand level, I'm kind of lusting for the Japanese brands. I think they're desirable, stand for quality, and some of them have really cool logos (Moon, Crews, Momose, Navigator, Tokai, Greco, Vanzandt, ESP, etc...). I no more feel like I buy a second-rate Gibson / Fender than a Lexus buyer feels he's getting an el cheapo Mercedes. Maybe we all started that way, but I think for most of us we've become fond of the brands in their own right.

 

[Matty]

i'll be the devil's advocate here...if you got 1500$ to spend..why not a real LP?..you can find a used Standard for that easily no?

I could've got a used standard for the price i paid for my Greco, problem is I can't find one anywhere near as good.

 

[Vintage55]

Buying a Gibson instead of an MIJ for the same money would be a viable alternative, if you can find a Gibson that indeed does compare. Much easier to find an MIJ and buy it blind online if you want the best chance of getting a good guitar.

 

[SingeMonkey]

Nah. A Gibson LP Standard is not a reasonable comparison. 2 piece back, chambered, etc. The Tokai LS98F - about $650 second hand - is the appropriate comparison, although I'd take the Tokai because of the solid back and Gibson USA quality concerns.

The cheapest alternative to the top level MIJs from Gibson is the R8. And those are about $2K minimum 2nd hand.

 

[jlee]

I paid $1400 used for mine, but this was back in '04. My guitar is a '02. Keep in mind that that ery'03 could have an ebony fingerboard. Don't know when they switched, but mine has an ebony board. Catalog says solid back, but mine has a 2 piece back and medium tenon. Still the nicest guitar i've ever owned.

 

[Kemper59]

i'll be the devil's advocate here...if you got 1500$ to spend..why not a real LP?..you can find a used Standard for that easily no?

What's "real" about a hollowed out/chambered/weight relieved 2 or 3 piece body, a Nashville bridge, a plastic nut, and finish flaws all over the place?

 

[nwobhm]

What's "real" about a hollowed out/chambered/weight relieved 2 or 3 piece body, a Nashville bridge, a plastic nut, and finish flaws all over the place?

It's still real, so is my 74' Custom and 79 KM, that I've had for 25+ years. Manufacture's change there specs all the time. Not everyone cares, if a guitar isn't an exact copy of a 59', I don't. I've played MIJ since the late 70's and Tokai's since the early 80's aswell. Not all of them, have been exact copies either, like the SEB series.

 

[Robert Arthur]

Unless money is no object, paying more for a new Toaki than a vintage one is absurd,. Paying more for a blind buy of a Guitar from Ebay that costs more than what a Gibson would seems absurd as well. These f"inish flaws" this guy keeps going on about are nearly non-existant on the top Gibson, although my Studio (a cheap practice guitar) had finish flaws that I saw before I bought it, there were 7 studios played the day I bought it; and it delivered the goods in terms of tone and playability, so I bought it anyway .One can go into a store and play dozens of guitars and find one that speaks to them. On line is an expensive gamble. An alternate would be to try an Epi Elitist. BTW, I have a 1978 Tokai "Springy Sound", and it's on par with the Gibsons in my collection, a bare notch below my 1949 ES-125...

 

[Kemper59]

It's still real, so is my 74' Custom and 79 KM, that I've had for 25+ years. Manufacture's change there specs all the time. Not everyone cares, if a guitar isn't an exact copy of a 59', I don't. I've played MIJ since the late 70's and Tokai's since the early 80's aswell. Not all of them, have been exact copies either, like the SEB series.

This "real" and "not real" story is SO OLD it's become boring.

There are real and not real guitarists, not guitars, real guitarists play a guitar they like, not because of the name on the headstock but because it plays, feels and sounds great...and costs the CORRECT price.

 

[jacco]

You lost me here..

 

[Robert Arthur]

Knowing how much I like Tokai, but hate the price; I would love to try one back to back with a Heritage Guitar, might save a whole bunch and still get a superior instrument..