To wax or not to wax - PAF sound without the microphonics?

[lester square]

Hi everyone. I bought a Momose MLS1 (> avatar pic) about a year ago and I wasn't quite satisfied with the original pickups.
I replaced them with Scatterbrane BenWaBranes (or so I think I remember) when Scatterbrane did some kind of final sale. I decided on the Scatterbanes because of reviews on this forum. The sound clearly improved, I absolutely like the way the guitar sounds now BUT: in the rehearsal room or a smaller stage, at stage volume and a high gain setting (which I use most of the time) the pus really tend to be microphonic. You just cannot let a chord or single note ring out and hope for harmonics to set in ... there will be a sudden shift to the awkward "beeep" sound which, well, just isn't musical and will annoy both player and audience.
The Seth Lovers in my Knaggs Kenai T2 on the other hand do not sound microphonic but clearly a lot too bright to my tastes.
The Bareknuckle Mule set in yet another LP like guitar of high quality (De Gier Authority, anyone ever heard of them?, they are fantastic) are very muscular but kinda might miss the openness and focus too much on the midrange, almost too fat.
So, what are your opinions about waxed paf style pus? I know they say that wax potting will limit the sound/spectrum or make the sound dull or something. I guess it is also a matter of taste, not just stereotypical views. I do not care for ideological statements like it can only be this or that. There is no one solution. I am open for a practical solution.
So I am asking you for your personal experience. Maybe you can give advice as to what paf style pus out there might well serve the purpose of being resistant to that "beep" while still being musical and open-sounding enough rather than just having squashy mids only. Like I said, I personally do not care if they're potted or not, I just care for the sound and handling.
What about, e.g., a Wolfetone Dr Vintage in the neck and a Marshallhead MK2 in the bridge position? I know they are not waxed but some say they are very resistant to microphonics, true?
Thank you very much!!

 

[AJK1]

Well i have a set of Seymour Duncan Custom Shop Pearly Gates which come 'lightly potted' and they are amazing, no squeal at all and the sound is glorious
I also had a set of Duncan Antiquities that came unpotted and i didn't like the little squeals and noises coming from them, so i had my local tech pot them and it was a huge improvement without affecting the sound at all
Just get your pickups lightly potted and you will be very happy

 

[ARandall]

Well, certain degrees of wax potting do change the sound....so that bit is definite. Whether that is to your taste of course is a different matter, and not at all to be confused with the argument of potting and tonal change. But dependent on your drive levels, thick tone, technique you might not be reproducing the sounds that benefits from unpotted pickups in the first place - hence no potting tonal shift.

But there are two mechanisms for squeal, and if you have a cover on more likely than not that is a major cause of the issue. If you simply put wax on the cover/bobbin interface then a lot of the issue is solved IME.

But 'lightly potted' as has been suggested can cover a lot of territory. You'd have to ask what that entails as one persons lightly potted could be another's medium or so on.

 

[LtKojak]

in the rehearsal room or a smaller stage, at stage volume and a high gain setting (which I use most of the time) the pus really tend to be microphonic. You just cannot let a chord or single note ring out and hope for harmonics to set in ... there will be a sudden shift to the awkward "beeep" sound which, well, just isn't musical and will annoy both player and audience.

Use less gain and/or place yourself in a different position.

 

[Rock City]

Use less gain and/or place yourself in a different position.

This. Found myself in a bedroom humming and buzzing with P90s. First thing that came to my mind was a hum debugger/noise suppressor pedal.
On a stage totally different story. Mind off the pedal.
Before P90 the same situation with SD Ants.

 

[AJK1]

Hi everyone. I bought a Momose MLS1 (> avatar pic) about a year ago and I wasn't quite satisfied with the original pickups.
I replaced them with Scatterbrane BenWaBranes (or so I think I remember) when Scatterbrane did some kind of final sale. I decided on the Scatterbanes because of reviews on this forum. The sound clearly improved, I absolutely like the way the guitar sounds now BUT: in the rehearsal room or a smaller stage, at stage volume and a high gain setting (which I use most of the time) the pus really tend to be microphonic. You just cannot let a chord or single note ring out and hope for harmonics to set in ... there will be a sudden shift to the awkward "beeep" sound which, well, just isn't musical and will annoy both player and audience.

Which is interesting considering i had contact with the above pickup winder a while back who assured me that his, and other 'properly made' unpotted pickups would not squeal...
Lol

 

[AJK1]

Use less gain and/or place yourself in a different position.

Yeah, good advice, play jazz and turn your back to everyone lol

 

[lester square]

Use less gain and/or place yourself in a different position.

Ah .. the ultimate solution ... go tell that to all the hard rockers and heavy guys out there who by some kind of misfortune do not play stadium gigs where they can be 15+ meters away from their cabinets ...

 

[lester square]

Yeah, good advice, play jazz and turn your back to everyone lol

Like I said ... unfortunately some people play music that essentially invloves high gain settings and do not play the big gigs ... I was kindly asking for practical solutions or experience within a high gain setting ... so if one asks me to sort of play blues instead maybe he did not read my initial post ... I would love to play them stadium gigs though

 

[lester square]

Which is interesting considering i had contact with the above pickup winder a while back who assured me that his, and other 'properly made' unpotted pickups would not squeal...
Lol

That is interesting. I bought the pus at a time that I thought I would not use this particluar guitar in my stage setup, but as it turned out to sound so good I did ...

 

[lester square]

Again ... any one having experience with the Wolfetones regarding squeal or no squeal?

 

[Zoobiedood]

Well, my first thought is not to play so loud or stand close to the amp with tons of gain. Any kind of high gain gig at high volume is not what unpotted pickups are designed for. That being said, I don't think potting changes the sound much, but it changes the 'feel' of them. Unpotted, well-wound pickups just simply feel better to play to me. Since you play with lots of gain, just get potted ones.

 

[mdubya]

If they have covers, try a bead of silicone between the covers and the pickup.

With "high gain" I doubt you will hear too much difference with wax potting.

 

[AJK1]

Like I said ... unfortunately some people play music that essentially invloves high gain settings and do not play the big gigs ... I was kindly asking for practical solutions or experience within a high gain setting ... so if one asks me to sort of play blues instead maybe he did not read my initial post ... I would love to play them stadium gigs though

I was poking fun at Kojak not you

 

[lester square]

I was poking fun at Kojak not you

I know I meant him, too

 

[CheopisIV]

I think it was WB who used to half-pot his pickups, or at least a few sets I've seen. Everything below the coils was lightly waxed but the coils were left clean. I thought it was cool but not sure how much effect it had in the end.

I'm with AJK1, turn your back on the crowd and play Jazz...sit down and cross your legs like a gentleman too.

 

[Big John]

If they have covers, try a bead of silicone between the covers and the pickup.

With "high gain" I doubt you will hear too much difference with wax potting.

Good advice here. Another trick that I've been using for years with covered humbuckers is to put a strip of electrical tape down the seam where the two bobbins meet. Then cut another strip in half length-wise and place each half strip along the the outter edge of each bobbin. Hold down the cover as tight as you can when re-soldering it back on.

 

[rclausen]

You could also try removing the covers completely

 

[Bill Hicklin]

I don't have firsthand experience, but I'm told that waxing hurts like hell.

 

[cooljuk]

Potting the pickup below the coils (keeper, magnet, screws, slugs and spacer) won't have any negative sonic side-effects but also only benefits those pickups which have some looseness in those components which allow them to oscillate under high SPL in the first place.

Putting some dampening material between the bobbin tops and the cover, like wax or tape, as well as properly installing the cover, will reduce or eliminate any potential oscillation in that location without negatively effecting the response of the coils.

Lightly potting the coils, themselves, can be effective in reducing pickup squeal, but a light potting of the coils having sonic benefits over a "heavy" potting of the coils is something of a myth. There's minimal-to-no difference between briefly soaking the coils in a hot thin wax mixture and potting the coils under vacuum and leaving them completely encased in a block of thick Epiphone-style wax under the cover. A layer of wax only a few molecules thick between one strand of coil wire and its neighboring wire strands will completely stop that strand of a coil from oscillating. It won't oscillate just a little or be slightly less microphonic or non-microphonic but otherwise immune to the negative treble and clarity losses associated with potting. It either does or doesn't move under high SPL. Any thin amount of wax on the coils bonds the fine wires to each other. Potting pickup coils always compromises frequency response and clarity no matter how little or how much wax is used. If those frequencies and that level of detail are beneficial or harmful to anyone's particular personal sonic goals, can only be determined by that player.


Personally, I would not pot the Benwabranes. I understand Rod is not making pickups anymore and did not make high production amounts to begin with. It might be best to leave them original for the sake of rarity and value, perhaps finding another guitar or player that is a better match for them. Maybe find some other pickups that work better for your guitar/rig/style? If you like the Seth Lovers, but they are just too bright, perhaps try some warmer sounding Duncans and see if they are a good match. Minimal investment/risk in that option.