Tired of Hearing About Illegals...

BillB1960

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I'm not confused at all !

Nice to meet a real "Native" citizen......

BTW, your answer was stupid, too :D

and it's "question" not "queston" :dude:

Actually I am a native citizen, I was born here as was my father and my grandfather and my great grandfather. I believe my great great grandfather on my mother's side may have immigrated but I'm not 100% sure.

So tell me just what part of "No" did you find stupid there sparky?
 
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing, or something like that.

If you don't actively participate in society, in great numbers them it's totally out of your control.

They've taken your power away by entertaining you and keeping your mind from thinking about real issues.
 

kmk108

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Ah...so the recession ended almost 18 months ago but now some panel of academics have decided to 'officially' inform us. Pardon me if I fail to find that particularly compelling in light of the current state of the economy. :rolleyes:

Like I said, it takes time to recover. What they're saying is that the economy is on the rise. it doesn't matter how slow it's rising or by how much. It's just that it is. The economy is improving, but that doesn't mean all the businesses that went out, causing all the job losses will just magically pop back up and give jobs back. Jobs aren't just going to pop out of thin air because companies are still weary of their stability. People are still not spending as much because either they're still paying off debts or they're worried about spending just in case something else happens. It takes time.
 

BillB1960

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Like I said, it takes time to recover. What they're saying is that the economy is on the rise. it doesn't matter how slow it's rising or by how much. It's just that it is. The economy is improving, but that doesn't mean all the businesses that went out, causing all the job losses will just magically pop back up and give jobs back. Jobs aren't just going to pop out of thin air because companies are still weary of their stability. People are still not spending as much because either they're still paying off debts or they're worried about spending just in case something else happens. It takes time.

I understand all of that but quite honestly I don't know any small business owners who are saying, "I'm just waiting for the economy to come back so I can hire all those people again." Business will be doing more with less and manufacturing is continuing to flee the country at an alarming rate. The landscape of the country has changed significantly in regards to business and regardless of what the numbers say there's still a lot of pain left to suffer through.
 

paruwi

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Aren't most of the citizens living in the U.S. somehow "illegal immigrants" ?
:hmm:

Actually I am a native citizen, I was born here as was my father and my grandfather and my great grandfather. I believe my great great grandfather on my mother's side may have immigrated but I'm not 100% sure.

So tell me just what part of "No" did you find stupid there sparky?

The history didn't start in 1492, or in 1776

there has been something before, IMO
 

zplapplap

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I'm getting tired of hearing about illegal immigrants here and everywhere else. Its a dumb subject to discuss or even bring up, especially on a guitar website. I don't care if they're taking our jobs, we're giving most of them away to overseas countries anyways. Why don't you take it up with the companies instead? Or better yet, why not fix the immigration policies? Yes? That might change something, because this is America, where every man's voice is heard...

Anyways, it really irritates the shit out of me to hear people utter things like "immigrants are wasting my tax dollars", no, government is wasting your tax dollars, and you probably plan on wasting them too. You want more money in your wallet? Don't eat out and quit your compulsive shopping.

There are worse things than illegals trying to get a better life. But you know, this is how America's always been, whether it was to the Asians and Irish, the Jews, or the Mexicans, America has always been full of dumbasses that think they're entitled to more because they killed the Natives for it.

Gosh... I'm irritated to the point I'm posting and ranting about this BS... I'm sorry, I'm usually calm, but this is one subject that really upsets and bothers me, because you know what? This is how my parents got here. They came illegally but worked through the proccess of becoming registered citizens. I don't know if thats wrong, or a waste of tax payer dollars, but to me, there seem to be more troubles out there than a group of people wanting futures.

This issue is going nowhere as long as there are elections in this country (U.S.) and politicians can win votes by doing absolutely nothing more than paying lip service to a divisive wedge issue once an electoral cycle.

It costs nothing to bash illegal immigrants while tending to the status quo while in office.
 

kmk108

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I understand all of that but quite honestly I don't know any small business owners who are saying, "I'm just waiting for the economy to come back so I can hire all those people again." Business will be doing more with less and manufacturing is continuing to flee the country at an alarming rate. The landscape of the country has changed significantly in regards to business and regardless of what the numbers say there's still a lot of pain left to suffer through.

That's where the talk comes in :laugh2:

There's no official point where anyone can say, "Yep, we're in a recession!" It's up to the people at NBER to say when we are and when we aren't...officially. Of course, in reality, it just comes down to how the American businesses and people perceive the economy and that's where I agree with you. Basically, I just took one side and hoped no one would call me out either way. :lol: It's all perception and I agree with you, we're still in the recession, but things are starting to look better. The gap is slowly starting to close.
 

BillB1960

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The history didn't start in 1492, or in 1776

there has been something before, IMO

In order for something to be illegal there has to be a law against it. Since there was no law against immigrating to this continent in 1492 then it couldn't be illegal now could it?
 

kmk108

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The history didn't start in 1492, or in 1776

there has been something before, IMO

But like I said earlier, There isn't an American alive that forced Native Americans out of their land. If you take the American approach to illegal immigration, the children of those who forced the Natives out of their land are legal residents :D. Therefore, every American citizen is a legal resident.
 

zplapplap

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The history didn't start in 1492, or in 1776

there has been something before, IMO

The inquiry as to who is legal or not begins and ends at birth for all that are born within the United States. As to you point, so what? You demonstrate a grasp of the obvious, but it's irrelevant. The United States, today, as a sovereign nation has every right to make and enforce immigration policy.
 

paruwi

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In order for something to be illegal there has to be a law against it. Since there was no law against immigrating to this continent in 1492 then it couldn't be illegal now could it?

At least the immigrants didn't know if there was any law...

It depends on the side of the viewing...

It's all good ! :thumb:
 

Deftone

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Children of illegals who are born here are entitled to welfare benefits and medical care, the parents are not.
Only few places in the States, like in CA, over ride Federal law regarding benefits.

Even Permanent residents are not entitled to welfare benefits/medical care, until after a length of time.

Going to the hospital to be treated, ER cannot turn anyone away, but everyone gets billed, if no Insurance etc...if illegals do not pay the bills, well that is another thing, but it sure isn't given free.

Most illegals go to the free clinics, mostly because they are worried about being caught.

I am not defending them, I'm stating true facts.

I never said they were entitled, I just said that's what they get. it's still subsidized by taxpayers. I'm just stating true facts.
 

Drew224

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If they aren't coming here the recommended way, then that's against the will of the U.S. There have been undocumented immigrants for years and years, and of course, it's been an issue before there was illegal immigration.
 

geochem1st

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I'm getting tired of hearing about illegal immigrants here and everywhere else. Its a dumb subject to discuss or even bring up, especially on a guitar website. ......That might change something, because this is America, where every man's voice is heard...

....

This is your first mistake. America is where every large monied special interests voice is heard and loudly, not every mans as it should. With the US Chamber of Commerce and other business lobbies pushing for allowing illegal immigration to happen and NAFTA, they successfully bypassed all the laws that have protected US workers since the turn of the 20th century.

Cheap labor with no need to supply benefits or pay unemployment or worry about worker safety..... hell they will even use child labor as well. For a businessman whats not to like?
 

SKATTERBRANE

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And there, (Geo's post) is the REAL problem that needs to be fixed. Heavily fine those who knowingly hire them.
 

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