This is insane! How does one tell?

[LPSGME]

I've been trying to either buy either a vintage ES or even a used new one. But looking on Ebay is getting scary. The chinese clones are so good, that it's hard to tell them apart. And given their specs, I'm wondering if they might not sound pretty good.

Check out these links.

Here's an ebay ad that ran recently.

1967 Gibson ES-335 All Original! Excellent Condition! - eBay (item 130322866168 end time Aug-14-09 10:11:00 PDT)

Compare it's photos to those in this ad for a Chinese made guitar.

1967 Gibson ES-335 All Original Excellent Condition...USD368.1 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's a copy that is made to look vintage.
09HOT VINTAGE GIBSON ES-335 ELECTRIC GUITAR ?? 1960 ??..NICE....USD443.0 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's a 1991.
Gibson ES-3351991CherrySemi-Hollowbody...USD391.64 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's an early 80's
1979 Gibson Les Paul ES-335 Pro...USD419.46 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Some of the newer copies seem very accurate in appearance and have carved mahogany bodies and single piece necks etc. and other specs that make me wonder how they sound.

GIBSON ES-335 TD CHERRY ALL ORIGINAL PRS STRINGS ...USD410.9 Wholesale Price at DHgate

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

I did not look at your links, but a LOT of Chinese sites use pictures of REAL Gibsons to sell their stuff. I found a Chinese site that lifted some pictures of my Ebay auctions for their site to sell their crap.

 

[River]

Please, don't wonder how they sound!! Pass them by. Don't buy from a company willing to piss down your back and tell you it's raining. I am the rare bird around here who has nothing against buying from overseas, even China. But please don't buy from a counterfeiter!

And as SB points out, don't be fooled by pretty pictures on a web page. That would just be, well, dumb.

 

[AngryHatter]

Let me ask you.

Do you guys think it possible that with all the effort to produce aged parts, case candy, et cetera that people that are not in China are also engaged in a form of counterfeiting?

I would assume that most are benign and just wish to have in their hands a guitar that for most of us will be nothing closer than a dream.
And certainly the people that pay for professional aging are paying what amounts to full retail for that faux '59.

But I've seen one instance here of someone buying aged parts and then listing it on eBay as the real McCoy.

The products the OP listed are so cheap that no one in their right mind would think them real.
Right?

 

[LPSGME]

I did not look at your links, but a LOT of Chinese sites use pictures of REAL Gibsons to sell their stuff. I found a Chinese site that lifted some pictures of my Ebay auctions for their site to sell their crap.

If the Chinese are taking photos from ebay ads, then that suggests that their guitars are not so accurate.

But as one of the main Chinese sale sites provides an Escrow service, how ever would they sell anything - if the guitars look unlike the photos?

No matter what, it leaves ebay a confusing place to shop because how does one know who is using who's photos?

 

[LPSGME]

Let me ask you.

Do you guys think it possible that with all the effort to produce aged parts, case candy, et cetera that people that are not in China are also engaged in a form of counterfeiting?

I would assume that most are benign and just wish to have in their hands a guitar that for most of us will be nothing closer than a dream.
And certainly the people that pay for professional aging are paying what amounts to full retail for that faux '59.

But I've seen one instance here of someone buying aged parts and then listing it on eBay as the real McCoy.

The products the OP listed are so cheap that no one in their right mind would think them real.
Right?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'so cheap that no one would think them real'.
A $400 Epiphone looks pretty good. So it doesn't seem impossible to produce a good look alike at that price.

 

[AngryHatter]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'so cheap that no one would think them real'.
A $400 Epiphone looks pretty good. So it doesn't seem impossible to produce a good look alike at that price.

Um, they are offering Gibsons for $400, right?
And not bottom of the line models, either.

I'd be very suspicious of "Wholesale - Free shipping+ 1967 Gibson ES-335 All Original! Excellent Condition!" at $368.10 a piece.
Heck, I'd be suspicious of an Epi that cheap.

But my point was there are TWO markets for fakes.
Offshore people faking them cheaply and onshore faking them at great cost.
One is a non playable POS while the other is playable it is a counterfeit nonetheless.

 

[bryvincent]

I've been trying to either buy either a vintage ES or even a used new one. But looking on Ebay is getting scary. The chinese clones are so good, that it's hard to tell them apart. And given their specs, I'm wondering if they might not sound pretty good.

Check out these links.

Here's an ebay ad that ran recently.

1967 Gibson ES-335 All Original! Excellent Condition! - eBay (item 130322866168 end time Aug-14-09 10:11:00 PDT)

Compare it's photos to those in this ad for a Chinese made guitar.

1967 Gibson ES-335 All Original Excellent Condition...USD368.1 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's a copy that is made to look vintage.
09HOT VINTAGE GIBSON ES-335 ELECTRIC GUITAR ?? 1960 ??..NICE....USD443.0 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's a 1991.
Gibson ES-3351991CherrySemi-Hollowbody...USD391.64 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Here's an early 80's
1979 Gibson Les Paul ES-335 Pro...USD419.46 Wholesale Price at DHgate

Some of the newer copies seem very accurate in appearance and have carved mahogany bodies and single piece necks etc. and other specs that make me wonder how they sound.

GIBSON ES-335 TD CHERRY ALL ORIGINAL PRS STRINGS ...USD410.9 Wholesale Price at DHgate

none of those 335s on the links are copies. all off them are the real deal. but the pics on the cheap ones are obviously lifted from other auctions/somewhere on the net.

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

If the Chinese are taking photos from ebay ads, then that suggests that their guitars are not so accurate.

But as one of the main Chinese sale sites provides an Escrow service, how ever would they sell anything - if the guitars look unlike the photos?

No matter what, it leaves ebay a confusing place to shop because how does one know who is using who's photos?

Whenever you doubt someone on Ebay, it is fairly easy to ask for SPECIFIC photos of the guitar, one to prove he actually has that very guitar in his possession, and two that the guy knows something about what he is selling. Why would you bid on Ebay without establishing communication with the seller first anyway?

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

.....MANY MANY MANY of my Ebay photos and even full ads have been used by scammers who have nothing to sell at all. These people hijack someones account and then offer premium items for sale. I have reported countless Ebay ads that are dupes of my old ads, some of them are 5 years old or more! They have many of my ads on file for this purpose.

 

[GNR4EVR]

Theyve even used (stole) pics of members guitars on this forum to sell their guitars. Dont be surprised to see your OWN out there. Thats why they label their seller name all over their pics, so competing sellers dont take them just like they did to you.

 

[lp_junkie]

The way I avoid scams is to buy at a local shop...............