The woes of a fast food worker

poncho

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What I make of those facts are the same thing anyone would have having read that article. And my insight has been shared since page 1





How 'bout you, Thump? Gleam anything from it?
 

Thumpalumpacus

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What I make of those facts are the same thing anyone would have having read that article.

"Anyone", eh?

This is an unsupported ad populum appeal -- itself a fallacy, but you're not even citing any numbers, just claiming that "anyone" would agree with you.

Bullshit, I say. There are clearly people who disagree with you. Answer their points already, without attacking their character. Rich's post #34 is a good place to start.

And my insight has been shared since page 1

How 'bout you, Thump? Gleam anything from it?

Yep. You've even quoted it already, permitting me to only cut-and-paste it:

First, many are low-skill service jobs in an efficient assembly where workers are easily replaced and don't require much education. Second, there is a large supply of people who are willing to make cheap burgers at a low wage.

Easily-replaced workers with small skillsets and large competitive markets have no reason to think that they can walk out and demand $15/hr on a sidewalk demonstration, when they can quite literally be replaced within three hours of not showing up for their shift.

Supply and demand, y'know?
 

Scooter2112

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I say we just fast-track this little experiment and see where it goes.

Give them an even $25/hr. and let the chips fall where they may. Empathy as far as the eye can see.

If it sinks McD's, send the bill for the entitlement expansion to the geniuses that thought this was the fix. Have a little empathy for the taxpayers who thought it was a dumb idea. :D
 

SteveGangi

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Except the rest of the developed world was rubble at the time.

Apples and oranges. Doesn't apply today. We weren't losing service jobs to India at the time.

We aren't losing those jobs, we are SENDING them there by choice. To save the companies money - savings that are NEVER passed on. There's a difference. We didn't lose anything, we gave it away. The "huge sucking sound" is self inflicted.

P.S.

I absolutely HATE having to deal with some guy who can't even speak intelligibly, when I have the occasional technical problem.
 

SteveGangi

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"Fiscal cliff", tax policy, whatever you want to call it.

All the talk is on tax policy with no mention of spending...or even a quantifiable budget, for that matter. In this thread, it's all income and nothing to do with cost of living or entitlement expansion.

Some context is necessary in either case. Otherwise, it's relatively meaningless.

Hell....even EMPATHY has been represented.

No all the talk about the "fiscal cliff" is about the usual political bullshit, drawn along the usual party lines. CONGRESS put the cliff in place to begin with, and now CONGERSS is using it as a political football.

Either way, it has nothing to do with THIS discussion.
 

DRF

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If it wasn't the fast food workers, it would be someone else. It's also one of the reasons we have a minimum wage.

So, what happens if the unlikely happens, and we could raise the wage for ANY job to a living one. What would happen? I honestly don't know, except it seems likely that a lot of basic things would suddenly be a lot more expensive. Maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong?

Prices would go through the roof and Unions would demand even more (living wages),its a vicious cycle. I'm not sure of all the reasons for inflation,markets and what not.

Unions always need to be on top, regardless of entry level position crap skills,that is why it is quite humourous, one skill set deserves a union and the other are "entry level" and should be paid shit, whats the cutoff for what should be union and what shouldn't be union?.

I think Judge Smells summed it up with...the world needs ditch diggers.

'cept here the ditch diggers are construction (union) or city workers (union) but I get the meaning of it..
 

DRF

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Easily-replaced workers with small skillsets and large competitive markets have no reason to think that they can walk out and demand $15/hr on a sidewalk demonstration, when they can quite literally be replaced within three hours of not showing up for their shift.

Supply and demand, y'know?

On this sidewalk demonstration its too bad they can't stop people (sometimes violently) from coming through to replace them...oh wait!. :D
 

geochem1st

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Prices would go through the roof and Unions would demand even more (living wages),its a vicious cycle. I'm not sure of all the reasons for inflation,markets and what not.

..


If wage increases are achieved through a minimum wage that is one possible scenario, but not necessarily the only one. Henry Ford paid his workers better so that they could buy his products. It wasn't a bad thing and other car manufacturers followed suit to some degree.

If we increased wages through profit sharing in the company they work for, then things change quite a bit. Prices do not have to increase as the increased wages are paid through profits, and decrease as profits decrease.... which gives incentive for the workers to do their best to earn the most they can. They effectively have a 'buy in' and strong motive for the company to succeed.


It's this model of business we have that is wrong and creating problems:

On Thursday, as part of a plan to liquidate the company and lay off 18,000 workers, a federal judge in White Plains, N.Y., approved paying 19 Hostess executives bonuses totaling $1.8 million...

The decision comes as the company, known for its iconic snack cakes like Ho Hos and Ding Dongs, says it doesn't have enough cash on hand to pay retirement benefits to some former employees.
 

KSG_Standard

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Context is everything...remember?:thumb:

Union representatives had opposed the plan, which offers $1.75 million in bonuses ranging from $7,400 to $130,500 for 19 executives, provided they meet certain benchmarks in managing the liquidation. But Judge Robert Drain said the plan was appropriate, citing testimony that it had been independently vetted and was below market value for firms in similar circumstances.

He said the liquidation would call for work "significantly beyond the type of jobs that [the executives] were doing at the start of this case," and called the incentive plan "an exercise of proper business judgment."
He noted that the over 3,000 rank-and-file employees assisting in the liquidation were also getting paid beyond their regular salaries, and that new Hostess CEO Greg Rayburn had ruled out a bonus for himself.
Judge OKs bonuses for execs in Hostess liquidation - Nov. 29, 2012
 

KSG_Standard

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Yeah lets pay people over and beyond when the company crashes. That's the ticket.

The creditors and owners of the capital assets need some workers to hang around and perform an orderly wind down of the company...and to help prepare the assets for sale to other companies. In order to convince these folks to stay around and do a good job...as opposed to go out and look for other employment, since they know their job is dead at Hostess...they are paid extra money as an incentive. The practice is common, and common sense.
 

brokentoeswalker

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Well while they are demonstrating they might as well beg while they are busy demonstrating..... probably make more than they make at McD's per hour.
 

Scooter2112

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We aren't losing those jobs, we are SENDING them there by choice. To save the companies money - savings that are NEVER passed on. There's a difference. We didn't lose anything, we gave it away. The "huge sucking sound" is self inflicted.

P.S.

I absolutely HATE having to deal with some guy who can't even speak intelligibly, when I have the occasional technical problem.

Ahem.

HOSTESS?
 

geochem1st

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twinkies-hostess-strike-chemicals-weekend-ecards-someecards.png


twinkies.png
 

HenryHill

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I'm not sure if it was intentional, but it looks like you've struck the crux of the matter.

Merely a characteristic of the real crux of the matter. :hmm:

The place I work at sells a half pound cheeseburger for $5.31 plus tax. We still manage to give our employees a real living wage, with two weeks of paid vacation and sick leave.


........



It's one of several reasons that I don't eat at them anymore, and why I don't shop at Walmart.

The disappearance of Paternalism. :)

Megacorporate community small business destroyers have killed mom and pops, and driven wages to the third world level, by low prices that ensure their eliminating other competition. ;)
 

Skintaster

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Merely a characteristic of the real crux of the matter. :hmm:



The disappearance of Paternalism. :)

Megacorporate community small business destroyers have killed mom and pops, and driven wages to the third world level, by low prices that ensure their eliminating other competition. ;)

This is somewhat unrelated, but Walmart is often a target of criticism for many reasons. I won't shop there, because of a spotty history of employment treatment t, and because I try to buy US goods as much as possible... Harder every day... And so much of the stuff Walmarts seem to carry also seem to be made in China.

But it's always bothered me that I have such a strong negative reaction to Walmart... I wondered if it was just a form of snobbery only part, as some people seem to benefit when a new Walmart opens.

After a lot of thought, I figured out the other reason I despise Walmarts. It's not merely a case of closing down competing mom and pop stores, it's the homogenizing affect they have on an area. They seem to open up, drive lots of the unique local places out of business, and the areas they open lose local color.

They all start to look the same, and a new Walmart opening also seems to attract other big national chains into the area... Just robs an area of the cool stuff that gave it its character, and turns it into another colony for strip malls.

I HATE that kind of thing.

Anyway, sorry for the derail.
 

PraXis

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Most mom and pops suck/sucked anyway. The only exceptions I have ever found was music stores and delis.

I love one-stop shopping. Whose got the sale this weekend? Wal-Mart? K-Mart? Target? Bed Bath and Beyond? Best Buy? JC Penny? Sears? Macy's? Home Depot? Lowes? Ace Hardware? Wegman's? Food Lion? Shoprite? Acme? Trader Joe's? Whole Foods?.. ok WH won't have a sale.. but there's PLENTY of competition out there.

How much should a cashier, cart retrieval guy, and/or bagger make?
 

Skintaster

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Most mom and pops suck/sucked anyway. The only exceptions I have ever found was music stores and delis.

I love one-stop shopping. Whose got the sale this weekend? Wal-Mart? K-Mart? Target? Bed Bath and Beyond? Best Buy? JC Penny? Sears? Macy's? Home Depot? Lowes? Ace Hardware? Wegman's? Food Lion? Shoprite? Acme? Trader Joe's? Whole Foods?.. ok WH won't have a sale.. but there's PLENTY of competition out there.

How much should a cashier, cart retrieval guy, and/or bagger make?

Right. And I mean this with respect, not as an insult, but I've read lots of your posts about this kind of thing, and you seem to be the type of guy that likes the kind of flavorless big box stores that I detest.

It's hard to frame this without it sounding like an insult, and that's not my intention, but that kind of "nothing but big national chains" experience looks completely horrible to me... Just a vast suburban expanse do strip malls. Probably near a middle class neighborhood with giant new houses with itsy bitsy trees, all about ten feet from one another.

If it's that kind of junk, and those kinds of stores that define some people's idea of paradise, they're welcome to it. I'll pass.:)
 

Skintaster

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How much should a cashier, cart retrieval guy, and/or bagger make?

Depends on their skill set and level of experience. Some stores like the one I help run pay their employees well.

The shopping experience shouldn't be entirely dictated by offering the cheapest prices at the expense of their workers. And it's not universally.
 

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