The i(thunderstorm)cloud...

[TeleDog]

I just had to write this because I'm getting worried about what's going to happen with this magic internet world we all live in today.

We've seen standards develop, consolidate and get set in 5 years or so, something that before used to take decades, now happens in a couple years and we get no warning whatsoever.

The iPhone is an example. I remember Google's CEO at the iPhone introduction 5 years ago. Now, Google is just a tool on iPhone and you have Android, but the standard is SET, that IS the way cellphones will be, and it cannot be changed.

Now there's this new iCloud thing, basically, using the internet as another iService. It will happen in the future, right? No. It's here, it's the way things are done TODAY if you have a Mac. Forget the iPad, forget the iPhone, this is about Macs too, even if you wanna get a little solitaire game.

Up until now, you had a computer and you could control that. You needed more RAM? You bought RAM. You had a slow disk? You bought a disk. Now, the great internet is part of the equation and we simply cannot control the ISP. How's that for users getting the big "?" as a PERMANENT part of the equation?

You now DEPEND on internet and ISPs to even get the software. I've been trying to get Xcode with SDKs for iOS for a week, a whooping 4.5GB download, and I can't. Why? NOBODY KNOWS!

Folks at Apple don't know what's going on, nobody knows, and the support site is plagued with the very same problem.

When you ONLY allow people to get apps one way, and you leave us all exposed to the desires and limitations of an ISP, when you have ISPs who don't know what Mac software is about and who can't even give you support to set up a mac for routine internet connections.. what do you have then?

PRAY your software will download and pray it's downloaded ok (the checksum prayer). Or else, you're out of luck. How's that for reliability?

iCloud is next, pushing software and it's a magnificent idea, but given TODAY'S REALITY how is it that we have to rely on ISPs are the ONLY POSSIBLE way to get software the right way?

Enter Rapidshare and Megaupload. You know EXACTLY what we're talking about here. You paid, can't get it one way, frustration starts, you try another... and another... and another.....

Apple NEEDS to come back to earth for a while. This is not an idea that's way into the future as too revolutionary for our limited minds. This is an ideal that's way into the future because of LIMITATIONS THAT ARE REAL and EXIST TODAY!

Rant over!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

One more argument for Windows boxes.

 

[Howard2k]

One more argument for Windows boxes.

Nope. This is merely an Internet extension of the ages old thin client architecture that has been around for years. Even on Windows!

It should not be ISP specific except for select application perhaps, but I have not seen much of that. An ISP specific architecture would be very limiting. Teledog, how exactly is it tied to the ISP?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't really understand any of what you just said, Howard.

 

[Sinmastah]

I agree, but Tele, it's not just Apple software. An ISP doesn't give a crap if it's a picture, song, movie, or apple product you are downloading (legally of course).

When I bought a game (starcraft 2 for example), basically all I bought was the security code to play it. It game with a disc, but all that was, was an easy way to download it (8gig file) from their servers. I know exactly what you mean. It's getting the the point where ISPs have to step up, which I think they will be soon, with fiber optic becoming more readily available.

"who can't even give you support to set up a mac for routine internet connections."

Obligatory comment "But I thought macs always worked no matter what"

 

[TeleDog]

Nope. This is merely an Internet extension of the ages old thin client architecture that has been around for years. Even on Windows!

It should not be ISP specific except for select application perhaps, but I have not seen much of that. An ISP specific architecture would be very limiting. Teledog, how exactly is it tied to the ISP?

Problem you got here is the "analytics" built into most apps today.

Before, people would simply ask. They ask you if you're satisfied with your software or the store or the application itself, the upgrade mechanisms... Today, nobody asks. They just build "analytics" right into the software that send data to the manufacturer over the internet and that's how they produce statistics that, in turn, are used to make decisions.

So, if your ISP is not completely reliable to, say, correctly download a 4GB stream from a high traffic source (and most here will NEVER find an answer to that simply because it's almost impossible to find out), you are left with a system that depends on "chances" to function. You guy a program, it may or may not work, you don't know. And you cannot control this! Your ISP may be the only one available in your area, it may be the cost effective option, but now you completely depend on it in order to upgrade even the most basic components.

If anything, windows users will be worse off when this standard takes hold, it's hard enough to upgrade a windows machine without adding an ISP into the mix.

My problem is this. The cloud is where the future is, that's basic and unescapable. But we're pushing a standard here that is not yet ripe for mass adoption. And we're doing so without allowing users a temporary, alternative method to survive. When you buy an app that you have to download and can't, that's bad enough, but when the healthy and SECURITY of your system is left in the hands of how much an ISP has invested to keep up with demand, then for all practical reasons you have lost control over your own computer, even the most basic tasks.

 

[Howard2k]

True Tele, if I understand you correctly.

In a could environment your entire computing experience is suddenly significantly more dependant on the quality of service that your ISP provides.

A great example of this is the iPad today. Many apps ARE standalone, but many are not. The iPad allows streaming of media from iTunes on your computer, so strategically if you use your iPad mostly at home then perhaps there is no need to sync loads of media to it. The result of this shared media is that your iPad has plenty of free space, but when not on your home network you suddenly lose access to a lot of that media. It is a trade off. The iPad, as it stands today, cannot stream media from your iTunes library while you are on another wifi network.

The same issue with cloud computing is logically the same, although the technical limitations are slightly different. If you store your data in the cloud and use applications in the cloud, and your connection is crap, then your experience will be crap.

TCP will do a great job of handling the majority of these constraints I imagine, but the result will be that a bad connection will be throttled down through TCP. Your data will always get there but it may not be there quickly.

So in a perfect world, your cloud experience should not be substantially different to that of a local application, but you are exposed to Internet transit problems, very significantly. Arguably though, Internet access is so ubiquitous that this is a non-issue for most people. But for mission critical data then it is certainly a valid concern. The workaround is the less than perfect dropbox synchronization type model.

But if you have crap Internet service, cloud computing is probably not for you.

 

[TeleDog]

What I see here is the little problem of a server being strained and your data filtering down to you in little drops.

I mean, I don't care much for a fast connection, my service is fast enough, but Xcode opened the floodgate to a real problem. Your numbers may add up, but in reality, it's a very different situation. The one key thing to remember here is that statistics give you an approximation, an idea of what's out there, but never the real thing, even if you have a humongous sample and even if you have the best data analysis tool you can rely on.

 

[KSG_Standard]

Apple is the devil...

 

[Howard2k]

What I see here is the little problem of a server being strained and your data filtering down to you in little drops.

I mean, I don't care much for a fast connection, my service is fast enough, but Xcode opened the floodgate to a real problem. Your numbers may add up, but in reality, it's a very different situation. The one key thing to remember here is that statistics give you an approximation, an idea of what's out there, but never the real thing, even if you have a humongous sample and even if you have the best data analysis tool you can rely on.

True. Perhaps the biggest issue that I see time time and again is the difference between bandwidth and throughput.

If I had a dollar every time someone told me that they could not sustain a 10Mb/s data transfer on their 10Mb/s connection I would not need to be working. That is where a gross misunderstanding of the difference between throughput and bandwidth is killer.

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

If people would stop supporting products they're unhappy with it wouldn't really be a problem. When I buy a product I don't like I return it and don't buy another.

Vote with your dollars.

 

[JMV]

Man...nerdspeak just goes straight over my head.

 

[tazzboy]

Apple is the devil...

Same could be said for Microsoft.

 

[Sinmastah]

Same could be said for Microsoft.

At least Microsoft doesn't brain wash people.

 

[TeleDog]

At least Microsoft doesn't brain wash people.

Difference is Apple was run by a bunch of brain dead corporate CEOS that blew away the spirit that made the company a hit when it started, and did so while making sure nobody knew anything about a product or a cool application.

The Xbox was developed on Macs, their chipset was the SAME THING they used on macs of old, and that's for an intensive, very demanding application. (can't compare to the old shell of word that could load in 32K).

Nobody advertised, nobody made sure people had a reason to buy a mac. And the company almost died.

Brainwashing? I never knew a PC user who doesn't get high on how complicated the entire thing is! LOL

The old days of Apple v. PC are long gone. What we have now is digital media v. old school, we're gonna have to fight if we want to be able to buy a newspaper 5 years from now!

I could go into the real journalism v. shithead bloggers, but that's another thing...

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

What we have now is digital media v. old school, we're gonna have to fight if we want to be able to buy a newspaper 5 years from now!

I could go into the real journalism v. shithead bloggers, but that's another thing...

Sounds like you've got a good rant brewing inside. That's gonna be a fun one to read.

 

[redcoats1976]

I don't really understand any of what you just said, Howard.

thats two of us...

 

[Dr.Distortion]

Tele...
The problem is the "big guys" all want cloud because it drops the distribution cost to next to nothing.
Instead of needing to make 250 thousand disks and ship them, they just update the cloud server and there done.
BTW all the old TV VHF frequencies are being bought up to make VWANS (Very Wide Area Networks.)
As said before thin shell clients on a dumb (iPad-ish) terminal running cloud is where we'll be within the next 10 years...
Desktops and laptops are gonna’ be history…

 

[Sinmastah]

Sounds like you've got a good rant brewing inside. That's gonna be a fun one to read.

You mean it sounds like apple fan boys are biased and feel like apple makes the best products ever? It's almost like saying Cadillac is better than Chevrolet. Sure they may be better, but the cost 3v as much, for almost the same thing. And the corvette (top end pcs) waste caddys for the same price.