The Effect CAB IRs have on the preset

frankv

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Frank, if you have time can you elaborate on IRs as they retain to the kemper in regard to loading and selecting. I'm drinking through a firehose here with this thing. So much to learn!
I have the time and desire to answer your question. :thumb:

Problem is I don' the knowledge to address your question. You want to reach out to Cybermgk. He is the Kemper guru around these parts. Me? I'm an AXE FX2 player. :wave:
 

cybermgk

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Frank, if you have time can you elaborate on IRs as they retain to the kemper in regard to loading and selecting. I'm drinking through a firehose here with this thing. So much to learn!
I have the time and desire to answer your question. :thumb:

Problem is I don' the knowledge to address your question. You want to reach out to Cybermgk. He is the Kemper guru around these parts. Me? I'm an AXE FX2 player. :wave:
@kmaster68
Just saw this. K, to load IRs to the Kemper, you need to get a software tool called Kemper Cab Maker. It takes IRs and converts them to a format that is useable by the Kemper. More to the point, it converts them into the same format that the Kemper creates when it profiles an Amp. Even when profiling an entire amp chain and making a 'studio profile' (amp and speaker and mic, useable straight too direct recording, FRFR solutions, the Kemper separates the amp portion from the cab portion while profiling. So i's converted to that same format.

At any rate, once converted, you put them on your USB stick, formatted by the Kemper, in the shard folder, and then put that in. You'll get a prompt on the screen associated with a button to import. Once imported, you can see by pressing the CAB button, and using the Browse knob.

Load any rig. Press the CAB button to bring the CAB settings into focus. Now use the Browse knob to roll through them. THis will include all the CABs from the different profiles you have loaded AND any IRs you have added. stop on one, try how it sounds, use the knob to select another, onward. If you find one you like, exit out and then save that rig as a new name.

Cab Maker Download
 

Pwrmac7600

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So just because I am curious. Does the Kemper allow you to use more than one cab at a time?
Like if i wanted to load a 4X12 with V30's and a 4X12 of T75's?

@kmaster68
Just saw this. K, to load IRs to the Kemper, you need to get a software tool called Kemper Cab Maker. It takes IRs and converts them to a format that is useable by the Kemper. More to the point, it converts them into the same format that the Kemper creates when it profiles an Amp. Even when profiling an entire amp chain and making a 'studio profile' (amp and speaker and mic, useable straight too direct recording, FRFR solutions, the Kemper separates the amp portion from the cab portion while profiling. So i's converted to that same format.

At any rate, once converted, you put them on your USB stick, formatted by the Kemper, in the shard folder, and then put that in. You'll get a prompt on the screen associated with a button to import. Once imported, you can see by pressing the CAB button, and using the Browse knob.

Load any rig. Press the CAB button to bring the CAB settings into focus. Now use the Browse knob to roll through them. THis will include all the CABs from the different profiles you have loaded AND any IRs you have added. stop on one, try how it sounds, use the knob to select another, onward. If you find one you like, exit out and then save that rig as a new name.

Cab Maker Download
 

cybermgk

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So just because I am curious. Does the Kemper allow you to use more than one cab at a time?
Like if i wanted to load a 4X12 with V30's and a 4X12 of T75's?
Yes and no. Not if they were two separate IRs or (from profiles) Cab Modules. Think of it as having just ONE CAB block on the Axe. (See my Opus), and only in one particular place in the signal path. That is one of the Axe's big advantages, is the signal path of whatever you want.

BUT, if you had a cab profile or converted IRs that were both, you could fill that one spot with it.
 

Pwrmac7600

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Yes and no. Not if they were two separate IRs or (from profiles) Cab Modules. Think of it as having just ONE CAB block on the Axe. (See my Opus), and only in one particular place in the signal path. That is one of the Axe's big advantages, is the signal path of whatever you want.

BUT, if you had a cab profile or converted IRs that were both, you could fill that one spot with it.
And I assume Kemper doesn't yet make anything like Fractal's cablab to blend your own ir mixes?
 

cybermgk

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And I assume Kemper doesn't yet make anything like Fractal's cablab to blend your own ir mixes?
Nope. But, could use it to mix and save as a new IR, then use the Kemper tool to convert and load that single IR.
 

skysc

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IMO; IR are magical . i was looking for Metallica tones and found a pack of IR for guitar rig 5 .. it has IR for almost each album . i load the IR into the Reflektor of the Guitar rig 5 and can get very close to hetfield sound for each album ( from Ride the lightning to black album with And justice for all dryness distortion in between . Before downloading IR i always thought patch and simulation from Guitar Rig and other guitar software were weak and i was barely using the software . Now it sound alot more profesionnal . For Axe fx II and Kemper .. silent underground studio does ¨Clone tones¨for many artist Metallica , megadeth , pantera etc.. . they sound really close from what you hear on the album . With IR i've found software sim and modelers achieving better result then using the ¨real amp and preamp¨that the artist use to record . I dont have a Axe fx II or kemper but i can only imagine how good they must be .
 

Bobby Mahogany

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(...)
I am happy with the tone I am getting from the Helix. It sounds like my Rivera rig.
This here shows one big truth I have witnessed over the years:
Many musicians develop their own tone (I call it "the tone in your head") and are after it no matter what.
They will like any piece of equipment that has "that tone" inside of it.
Whether a guitar or an amp, they will always try to "zero in" on "that tone".
Sometimes it's theirs, sometimes it's an imitation of some other musician, popular or not.

I remember Tony Visconti saying that "Marc Bolan could plug into anything and sound like himself".
It's part of the same "the tone in your head" search saga.

I find the fact that you ended up sounding like your Rivera gig with the Helix quite interesting.
In fact, you completely succeeded with the Helix because you found "the tone in your head" with it.
Congratulations!

Still, many also want to experiment different tones for different songs and the digital possibilities
are endless. Another plus for digital.
Of course, like with anything, "Your mileage may vary".
 

jageya

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I think many here that are not into modeling just yet have some questions about what exactly the effect of a CAB Impulse Response is in an FRFR setup. This post focuses on the AXE FX but pertains to any modeler that can load a CAB IR.

It's important to note that besides the hundreds and hundreds of amp models and thousands and thousands of presets: you also have literally tens of thousands of CAB IRs to choose from. What is a CAB IR? Quite simply it is a profile of a standard guitar cabinet that has been captured. When played into a system that has a FRFR or Full Range Full frequency system. The player gets to acually have at his disposal every cabinet ever made. He can then shape his tone even further then a simple preset choice.

This file is simple me playing an Em chord and progressing up with a few power chords. When I make it back to the Em chord you will hear as the chord is ringing out, the CAB IR change. AXE EDIT makes it really really easy to audition any and all cab irs in real time.

So here ya go. Any questions just ask. The preset used is a stock JCM 800. The CAB IRs I am using are from the new Ownhammer Player Pac. The preset is never changed or altered. Only the CAB IR is cycled. The entire file is one continuous recording with no edits.

https://app.box.com/s/7klnscadm7ihmqtf9h7kbo4fn7fc5pvy

This is what it looks like in AXE EDIT. The first bunch of these CAB IRs were cycled in the recording.



Now imagine the possibility of having literally millions of combinations to choose from. A Tube amp really demonstrates just how limited they are when considering what modeling at a high level brings to the table. .
tube amp limited compared to this
? oh yes of course.! but the ir's seem to me just eq variations really and there is something to be said about a tube amp just having what it comes with-easy peazy.
Can you imagine EVH sitiing with his modeler going thru 1000 ir's? All that time wasted he could be playing
 

frankv

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tube amp limited compared to this
? oh yes of course.! but the ir's seem to me just eq variations really and there is something to be said about a tube amp just having what it comes with-easy peazy.
Can you imagine EVH sitiing with his modeler going thru 1000 ir's? All that time wasted he could be playing
If you are the type where you want what comes of the box... then tubes are for you. In my case I wanted more. This technology gives me more.
 

mmd

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tube amp limited compared to this
? oh yes of course.! but the ir's seem to me just eq variations really and there is something to be said about a tube amp just having what it comes with-easy peazy.
Can you imagine EVH sitiing with his modeler going thru 1000 ir's? All that time wasted he could be playing
I second Frank. Why are you over here talking so much about tube amps? I keep seeing people responding to you - and there seems to be a lot of mention, on your end, about tube amps. What would you like to know?

There is A LOT of knowledge in this forum that can help you get going. But, a lot of it is similar to having complete faith in God....

You just have to accept it and BELIEVE it is true - despite what your analytic mind tells you.

If you can get there, no matter WHAT science tells you, you will have unshakeable faith. Same can be said for how to get the MOST from a high-end modeling rig....

Just something to think about.
 

Mr Insane

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...Can you imagine EVH sitiing with his modeler going thru 1000 ir's? All that time wasted he could be playing
Nah, he wasted his time tearing apart old Marshalls and modifying them for a slight sound difference.

As a person who went from digital boards to analog and tube amps, I will be making the switch to profiling/modeling.

Tube amps are great when they work. But they are just so damn fussy.
 

Stuff

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tube amp limited compared to this
You can use both tube amps and digital modellers with cab IRs. They're very convenient for those of us who don't have somewhere to run a dimed amp through a physical cab - just like digital modellers can be.

but the ir's seem to me just eq variations really and there is something to be said about a tube amp just having what it comes with-easy peazy.
A cab IR is a cabinet + speaker + microphone(s) + mic positioning + room bleed. It's a lot more than just an EQ variation - both in what goes into it, and that it has a time element to it.

Never changed out the speaker on an amp? Never changed the tubes? Never had a head and run it through different cabs? These are all things amp owners do to chase their tone. Amps are only stuck with how they are from new if you want them to be.

Can you imagine EVH sitiing with his modeler going thru 1000 ir's? All that time wasted he could be playing
Choosing an IR is the equivalent to taking an amp into a studio, trying out their cabs, going through their mic locker, and figuring out which combination you want for the session. That's something that any recording artist has had to go through.

Apart from being digital, the main difference is that you have to be both artist and engineer when you're introducing any digital element to your signal chain - especially IRs. That's not for everyone. It's easy for folks who are comfortable with all this to forget that.

As for EVH ... We're all products of our time. The things EVH did with the technology of the day, to chase his tone, are well documented. There's a whole industry or three that only exists today because of the innovations he came up with back in the day.

If he was a kid today, maybe he'd have to use a modeller. Maybe he wouldn't have the opportunity to own or experiment with valve amps. Maybe he wouldn't want to. Maybe he'd prefer how immediate digital is for experimenting with. Maybe he just wouldn't be able to hear the difference.

Some people prefer digital, some prefer analog, some prefer a hybrid approach. There are many reasons why, from what you can and can't hear, to preference, to circumstances, to opportunity. There's no "correct" or "superior" choice, there's only what's right for you at the time.
 

KenG

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I haven't tried IRs on the Helix yet. Changing cab selections, using dual cabs and blending, changing mics and mic distances also has the power to really change the sound. I'm finding I'm a fan of having at least a ribbon mic on the cab.
 

flats750

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I haven't tried IRs on the Helix yet. Changing cab selections, using dual cabs and blending, changing mics and mic distances also has the power to really change the sound. I'm finding I'm a fan of having at least a ribbon mic on the cab.
Dude, IR chasing is a rabbit hole of its own!! lol It's a whole new kind of GAS...

Try the Ownhammer free pack in place of your dual cabs. You won't have the sliders to change the mic's, but go through the list and find one distanced the same as you have your current cab. The other trick I use is something Jason Sadites uses, is the split crossover. Gives you one more trick in your bag to level the EQ.
 




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